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I like movies (i know you do too)

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I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by MF! on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:21 pm

Just finished watching this:



really loved how it was put together, even for the fact that it was a late 70s movie. Figure we may as well continue that movie list from prior.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Dave on Fri Dec 28, 2012 10:28 pm

Jet Li: Ocean Heaven

His first drama role as far as I know and shows he is a PHENOMENAL actor. I was hugely impressed. You may need to turn on captions.

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Journeyman on Fri Dec 28, 2012 11:56 pm

Was bored this week, and rewatched the Matrix trilogy.

First one is still awesome.
Second one is still so-so.
Third one still totally sucks.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by MF! on Sat Dec 29, 2012 4:16 pm

after watching Warriors, i had the sudden urge for 60s, 70s, early 80s gang movies.

Something about seeing a full out rumble with nothing more serious than a baseball bat (with maybe the occasional blade). Even though these guys were out to kill each other, there's something much more honourable (and a higher sense of toughness proven) in fighting without resorting to using a gun.

In a similar stream i found out/was reminded of the following

The Outsiders
The Wanderers (really good movie, and the morals were there, but a lot of needless racist remarks in the beginning of the film)
American Graffiti
Rebel Without A Cause
Scum (a movie from the UK which apparently caused an uproar, still yet to watch)
Boulevard Nights (hispanic gang culture in LA from back in the day. still yet to watch)
Crows Zero I + II (japanese school gang video based on a manga and made into a live action film)

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Brahma Bill on Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:30 pm

MF! wrote:Just finished watching this:



really loved how it was put together, even for the fact that it was a late 70s movie. Figure we may as well continue that movie list from prior.
This came out when I was in High school. We all thought it was badass. I saw it a couple of years ago and almost fell down laughing. You couldn't go to a party without someone putting empy Miller Pony bottles on their fingertips and saying "Warriors come out to play"

I prefer original movies. The endless remakes Hollywood produces annoy me to no end.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by MF! on Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:52 pm

Brahma Bill wrote: I prefer original movies. The endless remakes Hollywood produces annoy me to no end.

Speaking of which... one of my good friends put this one on me. Apparently hollywood is doing an american remake of Oldboy. Not sure if any of you have seen it, but its a korean film that is twisted as $^%$!! I'm saddened that there's no more originality in films these days.

Oldboy:

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by MCem222 on Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:14 pm

MF! wrote:
Brahma Bill wrote: I prefer original movies. The endless remakes Hollywood produces annoy me to no end.

Speaking of which... one of my good friends put this one on me. Apparently hollywood is doing an american remake of Oldboy. Not sure if any of you have seen it, but its a korean film that is twisted as $^%$!! I'm saddened that there's no more originality in films these days


Oldboy is one of my favorites! The only other South Korean film I've seen is this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Man_from_Nowhere_%28film%29
Its similar to oldboy. Very violent with a weird plot

Also, I've never seen that Jet Li movie, Dave, but I'm a huge fan so I might take a look at it


Is anyone else here a martial arts/action movie fan? Some of my favorites are:
Enter the Dragon
Bloodsport
Fearless
Rumble in the Bronx
Yip Man
Red Belt

And pretty much any Jet Li, Jackie Chan, Bruce Lee, or Jean Claude Van Damme movie

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Dave on Sat Dec 29, 2012 7:37 pm

The first time I saw Rumble I was totally blown away. It was my first Chan flick and the guy is simply a physical genius.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Journeyman on Sat Dec 29, 2012 8:49 pm

Enter the Dragon and The Raid are probably my favorite martial arts movies. And Warrior, if that one counts. Red Belt was decent too, a solid attempt to do something different....
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by musems on Sat Dec 29, 2012 10:26 pm

Journeyman, I really enjoyed Merantau (same actors as The Raid).
Was absolutely surprised by how much I enjoyed Warrior (outstanding performances by Nick Nolte and Tom Hardy). Not a martial arts film, but we just came back from seeing Skyfall and had a blast.

I'm a big anime fan as well and the Cowboy Bebop movie is one of my all time faves. Redline is another beautifully rendered animated film. Recently I watched a wonderful French film based on African Folklore titled "Kirikou".

Movies I'm ashamed to admit I really enjoyed and watch all the time:
"Ninja Assassin."

Yeah, yeah, clown me if you must but I think Rain is so cute and Naomi Harris is one of my faves.

Another hide my face in shame: "Prometheus"
Ok, have to be the silliest, stupidest science and scientist scenarios ever on screen but Noomi Repace was in great shape and Idris Elba is always a must see for me. His BBC series "Luther" is also excellent.

McCem, "Hero" is by far one of my favorite martial arts films. "Red CLiff" is also great, but it's more war strategy than martial arts. I like the old "Zatoichi" films too.

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Journeyman on Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:03 pm

X2 on Hero. There was also a movie simply called 'battle of the warriors' or something like that, sort of a martial arts/war movie but mainly military strategy. A little different and not bad at all.
I just saw skyfall too, not as good as casino but better than quantum.
I haven't watched merantau or cowboy bebop yet. Hellsing was a bit of a guilty pleasure for me if you like hyperviolent anime.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by MCem222 on Sat Dec 29, 2012 11:37 pm

Journeyman wrote:]
I just saw skyfall too, not as good as casino but better than quantum.

I liked Skyfall.
Is anyone else a fan of the old Bonds? Sean Connery is the man

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Journeyman on Sun Dec 30, 2012 12:02 am




Daniel Craig is an epic badass, but I do have a fondness for Connery's Bond. There was another really hilarious 'misogyny' compilation somewhere on youtube but I can't find it now. And he probably had the best one-liners of all of them.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by MCem222 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:37 am

Daniel Craig has never really clicked with me. I like his films but I've never seen him as an epic badass

I found that Bond hitting women video hilarious, probably more than I should have :lol:

Also, another scene from Goldfinger


James bond has some pretty rapey scenes. I don't think they could pull this off in a contemporary film. I go to a very liberal liberal arts school, and my psychology professor used Bond as an example of how not to act with women

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Journeyman on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:48 am


Yeah the old Bond was definitely... old school, I guess, haha.
And no I don't think you should act like that when it comes to women. Though, fwiw, I don't think you'd have a ton of success doing a lot of what Bond does on screen.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by MCem222 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 2:54 am

Journeyman wrote:
Yeah the old Bond was definitely... old school, I guess, haha.
And no I don't think you should act like that when it comes to women. Though, fwiw, I don't think you'd have a ton of success doing a lot of what Bond does on screen.

Agreed. None of that would or should work in real life. Then again, that's what the movies are for

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by TheMasterKey on Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:04 am

MF! wrote:after watching Warriors, i had the sudden urge for 60s, 70s, early 80s gang movies.

Here's a trailer for the 80's movie Bad Boys...




It's an awesome movie. I highly recommend it.

---------------------------------------------------
A good movie I saw recently is Glengarry GlenRoss...

Warning, objectionable language
Spoiler:

Incredible scene!!!
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Black. on Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:12 am

Never back down:


Never back down 2:
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by TheMasterKey on Sun Dec 30, 2012 7:48 am

MCem222 wrote:Daniel Craig has never really clicked with me. I like his films but I've never seen him as an epic badass

I found that Bond hitting women video hilarious, probably more than I should have :lol:

Also, another scene from Goldfinger


James bond has some pretty rapey scenes. I don't think they could pull this off in a contemporary film. I go to a very liberal liberal arts school, and my psychology professor used Bond as an example of how not to act with women

MCem222 wrote:
Journeyman wrote:
Yeah the old Bond was definitely... old school, I guess, haha.
And no I don't think you should act like that when it comes to women. Though, fwiw, I don't think you'd have a ton of success doing a lot of what Bond does on screen.

Agreed. None of that would or should work in real life. Then again, that's what the movies are for

How the world IS and how we wish it might be are NOT the same thing.

Human nature doesn't change on a whim.

------

A few words from Sean Connery...



Note Barbara Walters ending comment.

------

And in completely unrelated news, Rihanna and Chris Brown are back together.




http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2009/02/23/chris-brown-is-alpha/

------

And just so we're all clear, I'm not advocating anyone beating women lol.

But your professor is full of shit. If you want some real insight into the inner workings of human sexuality, read:

Sperm Wars by Robin Baker
The Red Queen by Matt Ridley
The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins
and
The Game by Neil Strauss
The Mystery Method by Mystery

The first three are science books. The second two are for more *ahem* practical purposes. If you have to pick one, I'd start with The Game.

------

Anyway, since we're in a movie thread, I'll lighten the mood back up...


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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by musems on Sun Dec 30, 2012 11:39 am

TheMasterKey wrote:

How the world IS and how we wish it might be are NOT the same thing.

Human nature doesn't change on a whim.



Respectfully, things don't change until people come to grips with how rigid gender roles and expectations inform behavior. The rape situation in India is causing women to speak out against violence against women. Will it change overnight, over a decade, over a few decades- no, but that doesn't mean it's ok to roll over and say "oh well it is what it is!" and encourage it as a trueism of human nature.
I love Sean Connery as an actor, but that by no means treat women that way. How about we treat women like we treat other people regardless of gender whose company we want to enjoy? I rarely see men just back hand smacking the crap out of their friends because they didn't like what he said, or how he dressed, or his male friend didn't show him enough submission.

Full disclaimer: I'm one of those full of **** college professors now that teaches Human Sexuality as well as a few other health courses but sex is my bread and butter. I've read much of what you posted, and I do agree things don't change on a whim. I'll even admit to kernels of truth in things like the Game. I spend a considerable amount of time discussing sexual violence and coercion...and on the final exam I still had students (both male and female) include "the way a woman dresses" as a risk factor for rape. That has nothing to do with our Selfish Genes (that's a blast from the past book), and has everything to do with our conditioned responses based on environment.

Re: Chris Brown and Rhianna- just because someone is famous doesn't make them sane. I look at that like any other domestic violence situation- dysfunctional.

This is one of the reasons that I'm passionate about sex education as a social justice issue. It's not just about how to put on condoms, or not catch a baby (lol). It's much much bigger than that.

This thread is still about movies, yes:
"In the Realm of the Senses" has to be one of the most famous art movies about sexual obsession out there.
It's Japanese, and very very strange. It tells what is supposed to be a somewhat true account of a woman who mutilated her lover after they both essentially go crazy (literally) over each other. It's very graphic sexually, but somehow not very sexy at all. Context matters!

If you like misogyny and blaxpoitation (great combo!) then Richard Roundtree as "Shaft" should be on your viewing list.

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by MCem222 on Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:40 pm

Wow, this conversation got heavy quickly. I'll let it get back to movies, but I want to respond quickly:

@musems, I think we can all agree that rape is deplorable. The situation in India is very disturbing to me

@TMK, I just want to respond about 'The Game.' I read it a few years ago. I never really applied any of its advice, but I've seen other guys in college use it and I know it works, and it works really well.

That doesn't necessarily make it right. There is something wrong to me about the pickup movement. I think the main thing is that the point is to land a hookup and not a relationship. I personally have little interest in landing a hookup- I've done that in the past and I find it pretty unfulfilling. I think people should concentrate on building meaningful relationships, which don't always start with seduction.

@Black, Never Back Down is one of my favorites! I was a little disappointed with the sequel, it just didn't have the magic that the first one had. I'd still recommend the first one to any fan of action or martial arts movies

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by MF! on Sun Dec 30, 2012 1:55 pm

TMK ill check out bad boys. I think i might have come across that too in my movie search.

Cowboy Bebop is definitely one of my favourites. Going further into the realm of anime, the ones I've found interest in

Sword of the Stranger (movie)
Samurai Champloo (series)
Afro Samurai (movie/series)
Tokyo Tribes (series)
Black Lagoon (series)
Trigun (series)
Ghost in the Shell (movie)



I tried getting into Baki the Grappler, but was having trouble finding full episodes. The exaggerated physiques are also kinda jks (the main character is 13yo, his first main enemy, not below, is supposed to be 16yo).

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by musems on Sun Dec 30, 2012 6:07 pm

Flex, I'm a big fan of Samurai Champloo and Trigun. My favorite old school series is Yu Yu Hakusho. Great suspense and action in every episode.

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by TheMasterKey on Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:11 pm

musems wrote:
TheMasterKey wrote:

How the world IS and how we wish it might be are NOT the same thing.

Human nature doesn't change on a whim.



Respectfully, things don't change until people come to grips with how rigid gender roles and expectations inform behavior. The rape situation in India is causing women to speak out against violence against women. Will it change overnight, over a decade, over a few decades- no, but that doesn't mean it's ok to roll over and say "oh well it is what it is!" and encourage it as a trueism of human nature.
I love Sean Connery as an actor, but that by no means treat women that way. How about we treat women like we treat other people regardless of gender whose company we want to enjoy? I rarely see men just back hand smacking the crap out of their friends because they didn't like what he said, or how he dressed, or his male friend didn't show him enough submission.

Full disclaimer: I'm one of those full of **** college professors now that teaches Human Sexuality as well as a few other health courses but sex is my bread and butter. I've read much of what you posted, and I do agree things don't change on a whim. I'll even admit to kernels of truth in things like the Game. I spend a considerable amount of time discussing sexual violence and coercion...and on the final exam I still had students (both male and female) include "the way a woman dresses" as a risk factor for rape. That has nothing to do with our Selfish Genes (that's a blast from the past book), and has everything to do with our conditioned responses based on environment.

Re: Chris Brown and Rhianna- just because someone is famous doesn't make them sane. I look at that like any other domestic violence situation- dysfunctional.

This is one of the reasons that I'm passionate about sex education as a social justice issue. It's not just about how to put on condoms, or not catch a baby (lol). It's much much bigger than that.

Mcem’s professor said to never behave like James Bond. Yet, some girls respond favorably to James Bond type behavior. If girls find that behavior attractive, but he’s telling guys not to act that way, he’s speaking from a position of how he would like the world to work as opposed to how it actually does.

Guys who are getting their sexual needs met don't need to go around raping women. It's guys who struggle with women AND who are being told to behave in ways that will keep them perpetually stuck that way, who are the ticking timebombs.

And you don’t treat a girl the same way you treat a guy because… SHE’S NOT A GUY! That's not the result of "rigid gender roles and expectations". Men and women are just inherently different.


MCem222 wrote:Wow, this conversation got heavy quickly. I'll let it get back to movies, but I want to respond quickly:

@musems, I think we can all agree that rape is deplorable. The situation in India is very disturbing to me

@TMK, I just want to respond about 'The Game.' I read it a few years ago. I never really applied any of its advice, but I've seen other guys in college use it and I know it works, and it works really well.

That doesn't necessarily make it right. There is something wrong to me about the pickup movement. I think the main thing is that the point is to land a hookup and not a relationship. I personally have little interest in landing a hookup- I've done that in the past and I find it pretty unfulfilling. I think people should concentrate on building meaningful relationships, which don't always start with seduction.

I’m not arguing whether or not it’s right. If anything, I think I pointed out that aspects of it can be pretty disturbing.

But a fire can be used to cook a family's dinner or to burn someone's house to the ground. That doesn't mean fire is good or bad. It just is.

We all agree that Game works.

Whether or not you want to use it is up to you.

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by MF! on Sun Dec 30, 2012 10:35 pm

lol... we went from greaser films to discussing mysogeny and PUA ethics :facepalm:
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Journeyman on Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:58 am

Didn't watch your link TMK, maybe I should've?
I'm sure that Connery himself was a womanizer, he seems the sort and certainly had the wealth, fame, looks, accent (haha), etc. But seriously, the James Bond movies are male fantasy for a reason. Break into some random woman's house carrying a gun and she probably won't be sleeping with you after a one-liner involving a well-placed pun....

And I really don't believe that 'the game mechanics' applies to all or even most women. It's one thing reading about it and something else doing it. Sure there's a pretty easily accessible hookup culture in college. I'm not sure it'd be so easy to 'use' whatever it is outside, though. And even inside... definitely not always; just from personal experience.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by TheMasterKey on Mon Dec 31, 2012 1:11 pm

Journeyman wrote:Didn't watch your link TMK, maybe I should've?
I'm sure that Connery himself was a womanizer, he seems the sort and certainly had the wealth, fame, looks, accent (haha), etc. But seriously, the James Bond movies are male fantasy for a reason. Break into some random woman's house carrying a gun and she probably won't be sleeping with you after a one-liner involving a well-placed pun....

Just so we're clear, I'm definetly NOT saying that that could be pulled off :lol:


Journeyman wrote:And I really don't believe that 'the game mechanics' applies to all or even most women. It's one thing reading about it and something else doing it. Sure there's a pretty easily accessible hookup culture in college. I'm not sure it'd be so easy to 'use' whatever it is outside, though. And even inside... definitely not always; just from personal experience.

Game principles work on all women. But for a number of various reasons, it's not something where you can necessarily just read something, go out and pull it off. You have to practice ALOT.



Guys just get confused when they think it's something magical or that it's just memorizing a couple of lines.
It's made worse when "gurus" offer programs promising things like "NEVER BE REJECTED AGAIN!!!" "Get ANY girl you want!!!" That's bs.

But Game is real and I've experienced the results firsthand. It's a large topic, if you want to discuss feel free to PM me or maybe start a new thread.


Last edited by TheMasterKey on Mon Dec 31, 2012 10:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Journeyman on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:05 pm

"Game principles work on all women."
I honestly don't think they do. For both of the serious girlfriends I've had so far, I had a great deal of... shall we say, competition? Both times from more than one fellow, and several of them 'game' type of individuals, normally very successful with women, popular, etc. so, guys who were used to coming out on top with that particular approach. And, well, in both cases, the girls ended up with me.
That's my personal xp anyway. So, apart from my own stunningly attractive qualities :roll: I'm pretty sure that for at least some women--at least the ones I've been attracted to enough to pursue--the 'game' principles just don't work. And it's not that they're immune or something, they enjoyed extra attention at least to some extent... but didn't really respond all that positively or strongly to the whole 'game' thing. So, yeah.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Journeyman on Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:06 pm

oh and TMK I do welcome a PM anytime. This kinda (psych) stuff is always interesting to talk about and I'll be the first to admit that I really don't know all that much about it, apart from what I've experienced.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Dave on Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:30 pm

Musems wrote:on the final exam I still had students (both male and female) include "the way a woman dresses" as a risk factor for rape

That is as ancient truth as setting a delicious buffet before a hungry man is a risk factor for eating. Modesty is practically a lost virtue and society's plunge down the toilet is not altogether disassociated from its loss.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Brahma Bill on Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:41 pm

MF! wrote:lol... we went from greaser films to discussing mysogeny and PUA ethics :facepalm:
One more reason I love this place! No low brow knuckle draggers around here.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by musems on Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:05 pm

TMK,
I can only speak from my perspective as a woman. No we are not men, but we are humans. You treat your male friends with some basic human decency and are actually interested in what they have to say right? You treat them as individuals and not some kind of bizarre bubble-headed monolith that are programmed by estrogen to act in certain ways I'd guess? Most women would like that too. No less. Certainly, some expect more, and some expect some strange things but like any person experiences inform expectations. If a woman grows up with a back handing daddy, then yeah Sean Connery is looking like a good catch. For the rest of us, not so much.


As for the whole pick up movement, I don't think one should have to work so hard to manipulate a hook-up. If you look pretty good and are not a total creeper, sex is pretty easy to come by if that's all you want . Sex is about as easy to come by as a bag of potato chips. Relationships, good relationships, take far more discrimination.

Dave:
There's modesty but then there's personal responsibility too. I can be broke, but not steal. That's a choice. A person can be aroused and frustrated, but not rape or assault. Is it a good idea to get sloppy drunk at a frat party and parade around in a thong? No. No good will come of that! But hey if I walk down the street naked, it doesn't give a person license to shoot me (an assault) because they don't like it. They'd still go to jail for assault, and I'm sure I'd get a fine and possibly jail time for indecent exposure.
:D

I'm actually a big proponent of discretion and modesty during ones formative years if for no other reason than to build a sense of self beyond how much someone else likes your breasts or biceps. As an adult, I'm not wearing dresses to the ankles though!

Movies:
I just watched "Blade Trinity" with my niece. We were both really disappointed in the vampires. How can a supernatural vampire get out kick-boxed by Jessica Biel and Ryan Reynolds? Made no sense. We laughed.

That's why I liked "30 Days of Night". Those vampires were real monsters. Script wasn't great, but they didn't romanticize. The vamps were creepy and strong and just ugly!

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by MCem222 on Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:41 pm

If this conversation goes on maybe we should just make a separate thread about it :oops:

Musems, its nice to get a female perspective on all of this. During my news years eve plans I ended up having a heated conversation with my friends about rape (funny enough, someone else brought up a similar thing you brought up in this thread; is it fair to tell women not to dress provocatively so that they can avoid rape?). Anyway, I pointed out that men will never really understand the issue because they (for the most part) don't deal with the threat of rape. At the same time, women will never understand a lot of issues in the same way men do.

Journeyman wrote:"Game principles work on all women."
I honestly don't think they do. For both of the serious girlfriends I've had so far, I had a great deal of... shall we say, competition? Both times from more than one fellow, and several of them 'game' type of individuals, normally very successful with women, popular, etc. so, guys who were used to coming out on top with that particular approach. And, well, in both cases, the girls ended up with me.
That's my personal xp anyway. So, apart from my own stunningly attractive qualities :roll: I'm pretty sure that for at least some women--at least the ones I've been attracted to enough to pursue--the 'game' principles just don't work. And it's not that they're immune or something, they enjoyed extra attention at least to some extent... but didn't really respond all that positively or strongly to the whole 'game' thing. So, yeah.

Good on you for coming out on top over the competition ;)
I had seen other guys flirting with my girlfriend before we were together. Then I asked her out, and I was the first guy who actually did that. It goes to show that taking initiative counts for a lot, and nothing will happen if you don't take the initiative to make it happen

With regard to:
"Game principles work on all women."

Nothing works on all women. Nothing works on all of anything.

The BEST thing you realistically say would be:
"Game principles are a framework for understanding women." I'm not even sure they are, but the best a social psychologist could hope to find is a framework for understanding people, not something that works on everybody.


Dave.cyco wrote:
Modesty is practically a lost virtue and society's plunge down the toilet is not altogether disassociated from its loss.

In my mind, modesty is all relative. In a society where everyone wheres short shorts during summer, then seeing a bare leg becomes an ordinary event. Go to the middle east and suddenly you're dressing in a most unmodest way.

To me, there is nothing wrong with a change in standards for modesty. The absolute point on the scale, how people dress in general, doesn't matter as much as when a person deviates from that point. Does that make sense?

That isn't to say that some points are better than others. There is obviously a difference between everyone going nude and women wearing buras. Neither extreme is preferable.

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by musems on Wed Jan 02, 2013 12:20 am

MCem222 wrote:
With regard to:
"Game principles work on all women."

Nothing works on all women. Nothing works on all of anything.

The BEST thing you realistically say would be:
"Game principles are a framework for understanding women." I'm not even sure they are, but the best a social psychologist could hope to find is a framework for understanding people, not something that works on everybody.


Well said, and there's a segment of women those principles will work on. I won't deny that.

In societies where women do wear Burkas, they still get assaulted. I wish the answers were that simple. Sexual assaults are not age or gender bound so we'd have to indict every piece of clothing from a diaper to a grandma style house dress to ask "is this too provocative?" if we want to take that idea and run with it. It doesn't stand up under that kind of scrutiny.

Modesty definitely is cultural and relative. When I was in Brazil (love Brazil) and France I saw some very salacious (from a US viewpoint) things on TV.

I'd much rather discuss movies McCem! This will be my last say so on this in the interest of getting the thread back in track. I value all the opinions shared here.












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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by itlives on Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:13 am

I just read pages 2 and 3. I didn't see anyone say anything about the power aspect of rape. All I saw was discussion about clothing and respect for the other sex.
As far as I know, rape is about power over another person.
I've never raped or been raped, so what do I know?
If I'm beating a dead horse, sorry...

Samuria Champloo is one of my favs! I'll have to check out some of the others mentioned.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by TheMasterKey on Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:03 am

Journeyman wrote:"Game principles work on all women."
I honestly don't think they do. For both of the serious girlfriends I've had so far, I had a great deal of... shall we say, competition? Both times from more than one fellow, and several of them 'game' type of individuals, normally very successful with women, popular, etc. so, guys who were used to coming out on top with that particular approach. And, well, in both cases, the girls ended up with me.
That's my personal xp anyway. So, apart from my own stunningly attractive qualities :roll: I'm pretty sure that for at least some women--at least the ones I've been attracted to enough to pursue--the 'game' principles just don't work. And it's not that they're immune or something, they enjoyed extra attention at least to some extent... but didn't really respond all that positively or strongly to the whole 'game' thing. So, yeah.

Well done on your part. But a point you might not have considered is that you were unconsciously applying Game principles yourself. Or in other words, you were naturally behaving in a way girls find very attractive.

Here's a post from a guy retelling the story of how he met his now ex-wife. At the time he met her and during their marriage, he had no formal knowledge of Game. As he retells the story here, he references some Game principles that he was unconsciouly applying in boldface type. (google any terms you don't recognize)

This is NOT a post giving advice. It's merely to help illustrate underlying principles.

Krauser wrote:

--Why I believe in pick up--

I’d never believed any of this shit.

Not consciously anyway. I figured women were equal, they like nice guys, they want to be respected, they want you to ask their opinions. I figured romantic gestures make their hearts melt.

Of course I’d never actually done any of that lame beta-boy shit. I met my wife in a bar in Old Street while drunk. She’d wandered in with two friends, I’d wandered over and just started spouting inane gibberish at her. But I was super confident, not even vaguely interested in pulling her, and I was surrounded by friends trying to get me to follow them to the next bar.

State. Outcome independence. Social proof.

She listened, she giggled, I busted on her. And finally I allowed her to give me her number. I said I might call but I was pretty busy this week. When we finally met up I took her to a pub for a few hours until my friends arrived, then gave her a kiss and left with them. For the second date I home cooked her some cheap sushi and then **** her.

Cocky-funny. None-neediness. Escalation.

She semi-flaked on the next date. Some bullshit about her dance class overrunning and not being able to call me till it finished. I told her I’m not taking that shit and she can either come to me on my terms tomorrow or we are done. She came, and I **** her.

Dominance. Willingness to walk away.

A couple of months later I get my first big shit test. We are getting ready for bed and I’m tired and need to get up early. She says some bullshit, I tell her to shut up. She throws the contents of her Volvic water bottle over me. I go **** apeshit. I roar upwards, grab the bottle, push her of the bed and shout “Get the **** out of my house now, you **** ****!”. I grab her clothers (she’s bra and panties), thrust them into her arms and push her out the bedroom.

Shock and awe from the woman. She floods the room with tears, apologies, and begs to stay. Her eyes light up with horniness. I magnanamously allow her to stay, putting a towel over the wet sheets and telling her to sleep on the wet side. After twenty minutes I grab her and allow her to cuddle me. No more shit tests for seven years.

Aggression. Wildness. Enforcing boundaries.

I’m reading “The Lay Guide” (which I had to re-order on Amazon) and I’m starting to slot the pieces together. For eight years I had a perfect 10 (she was a model and professional dancer, star athlete in high school, and **** smart too) absolutely blissfully madly in love with me. And is it a coincidence that from the very beginning I’d inadvertently followed all the guiding principles of Game?

I think not.

I heard an analogy recently. A guy gives you a shovel, points to the ground and says “There be diamonds down there”. How deep would you dig? If you think he’s full of shit I’d wager you’d give up after the first few minutes. Contrarily, if you believe him you’d dig for weeks. So long as you have the certainty that the digging will eventually result in diamonds, you’ll dig.

That there is me and pick-up. I know it’s the mother lode. I just have to keep digging.

[UPDATE: I've left this post as originally written because it captures the type of anger and bitterness I was holding when I first got into Game. I see the same process all the time with students - the start off angry and gradually mellow out as they make progress on their inner game and start getting good responses from good women. K]

Original source - http://krauserpua.com/2009/09/08/why-i-believe-in-pick-up/

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by TheMasterKey on Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:04 am

musems wrote:TMK,
I can only speak from my perspective as a woman.

You don't say?

musems wrote:No we are not men, but we are humans. You treat your male friends with some basic human decency and are actually interested in what they have to say right? You treat them as individuals and not some kind of bizarre bubble-headed monolith that are programmed by estrogen to act in certain ways I'd guess? Most women would like that too. No less. Certainly, some expect more, and some expect some strange things but like any person experiences inform expectations. If a woman grows up with a back handing daddy, then yeah Sean Connery is looking like a good catch. For the rest of us, not so much.

Did you even watch the video? :facepalm:

For the guys reading...

musems wrote:As for the whole pick up movement, I don't think one should have to work so hard to manipulate a hook-up.

Watch from 1:07–1:56

Moderated

musems wrote:If you look pretty good and are not a total creeper, sex is pretty easy to come by if that's all you want . Sex is about as easy to come by as a bag of potato chips.

Answer here:

Moderated
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by TheMasterKey on Wed Jan 02, 2013 3:06 am

MCem222 wrote:Good on you for coming out on top over the competition ;)
I had seen other guys flirting with my girlfriend before we were together. Then I asked her out, and I was the first guy who actually did that. It goes to show that taking initiative counts for a lot, and nothing will happen if you don't take the initiative to make it happen

With regard to:
"Game principles work on all women."

Nothing works on all women. Nothing works on all of anything.

The BEST thing you realistically say would be:
"Game principles are a framework for understanding women." I'm not even sure they are, but the best a social psychologist could hope to find is a framework for understanding people, not something that works on everybody.

You’re quibbling over semantics.

But good work on your part. You got the girl after taking initiative and going after what you wanted, which is a… wait for it….. WAIT for it……. GAME PRINCIPLE! The same way that a principle of sales is… ASK FOR THE SALE!

Your future girlfriend had the options between you and at least several other guys interested in her (refer back to the 2nd Chris Rock video). Only one of them, you, had the balls to risk rejection and try to make something happen.

As I already said, Game is NOT magic.

The problem with discussing this stuff is that keyboard jockeying/theorizing runs rampant. Plus alot of it goes too far against the worldview of what most people have believed their entire lives.

I’m not an evangelist. If someone has the interest, I’ve linked to 5 books and a 2 blogs filled with relevant information.

But the best approach to learn this stuff is to study a little of it, then GO OUT AND TRY IT.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Journeyman on Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:16 am

TheMasterKey wrote:
Journeyman wrote:"Game principles work on all women."
I honestly don't think they do. For both of the serious girlfriends I've had so far, I had a great deal of... shall we say, competition? Both times from more than one fellow, and several of them 'game' type of individuals, normally very successful with women, popular, etc. so, guys who were used to coming out on top with that particular approach. And, well, in both cases, the girls ended up with me.
That's my personal xp anyway. So, apart from my own stunningly attractive qualities :roll: I'm pretty sure that for at least some women--at least the ones I've been attracted to enough to pursue--the 'game' principles just don't work. And it's not that they're immune or something, they enjoyed extra attention at least to some extent... but didn't really respond all that positively or strongly to the whole 'game' thing. So, yeah.

Well done on your part. But a point you might not have considered is that you were unconsciously applying Game principles yourself. Or in other words, you were naturally behaving in a way girls find very attractive.

Here's a post from a guy retelling the story of how he met his now ex-wife. At the time he met her and during their marriage, he had no formal knowledge of Game. As he retells the story here, he references some Game principles that he was unconsciouly applying in boldface type. (google any terms you don't recognize)

This is NOT a post giving advice. It's merely to help illustrate underlying principles.

Krauser wrote:

--Why I believe in pick up--

I’d never believed any of this shit.

Not consciously anyway. I figured women were equal, they like nice guys, they want to be respected, they want you to ask their opinions. I figured romantic gestures make their hearts melt.

Of course I’d never actually done any of that lame beta-boy shit. I met my wife in a bar in Old Street while drunk. She’d wandered in with two friends, I’d wandered over and just started spouting inane gibberish at her. But I was super confident, not even vaguely interested in pulling her, and I was surrounded by friends trying to get me to follow them to the next bar.

State. Outcome independence. Social proof.

She listened, she giggled, I busted on her. And finally I allowed her to give me her number. I said I might call but I was pretty busy this week. When we finally met up I took her to a pub for a few hours until my friends arrived, then gave her a kiss and left with them. For the second date I home cooked her some cheap sushi and then **** her.

Cocky-funny. None-neediness. Escalation.

She semi-flaked on the next date. Some bullshit about her dance class overrunning and not being able to call me till it finished. I told her I’m not taking that shit and she can either come to me on my terms tomorrow or we are done. She came, and I **** her.

Dominance. Willingness to walk away.

A couple of months later I get my first big shit test. We are getting ready for bed and I’m tired and need to get up early. She says some bullshit, I tell her to shut up. She throws the contents of her Volvic water bottle over me. I go **** apeshit. I roar upwards, grab the bottle, push her of the bed and shout “Get the **** out of my house now, you **** ****!”. I grab her clothers (she’s bra and panties), thrust them into her arms and push her out the bedroom.

Shock and awe from the woman. She floods the room with tears, apologies, and begs to stay. Her eyes light up with horniness. I magnanamously allow her to stay, putting a towel over the wet sheets and telling her to sleep on the wet side. After twenty minutes I grab her and allow her to cuddle me. No more shit tests for seven years.

Aggression. Wildness. Enforcing boundaries.

I’m reading “The Lay Guide” (which I had to re-order on Amazon) and I’m starting to slot the pieces together. For eight years I had a perfect 10 (she was a model and professional dancer, star athlete in high school, and **** smart too) absolutely blissfully madly in love with me. And is it a coincidence that from the very beginning I’d inadvertently followed all the guiding principles of Game?

I think not.

I heard an analogy recently. A guy gives you a shovel, points to the ground and says “There be diamonds down there”. How deep would you dig? If you think he’s full of shit I’d wager you’d give up after the first few minutes. Contrarily, if you believe him you’d dig for weeks. So long as you have the certainty that the digging will eventually result in diamonds, you’ll dig.

That there is me and pick-up. I know it’s the mother lode. I just have to keep digging.

[UPDATE: I've left this post as originally written because it captures the type of anger and bitterness I was holding when I first got into Game. I see the same process all the time with students - the start off angry and gradually mellow out as they make progress on their inner game and start getting good responses from good women. K]

Original source - http://krauserpua.com/2009/09/08/why-i-believe-in-pick-up/


Okay. Honestly? **** that guy. [Dave, don't moderate my comment, for goodness' sake, this definitely deserves it]. I really don't believe in this whole toughgy **** domination/borderline abuse, he-who-cares-least-wins cocky **** approach to women. They aren't objects, or prizes, or just something to be manipulated and used for sexual pleasure, as that fellow seems to believe/think/see. Jeeez....
I'm not saying 'my approach works' or something like that, cause I don't have a friggin approach. This ain't a game to me and I'm not trying to play to anyone's inner psyche. I'm myself, I have fun, and if I'm attracted to someone and have genuine feelings, I go for it. Pretty simple. I have way more good female friends than male friends so I could never think of 'women' in that ^^^ way anyhow.
What most of my friends seem to want, not just counting my girlfriends--someone to do things for them but allow them to be independent, someone who'll care but give room for them to do their own thing with girlfriends or w/e, spend time without being clingy, be affectionate without being overbearing or forcing (and forceful is different from forcing).... basically, some sort of happy medium the exact level of which which will be different for everyone. Simplification is good but oversimplification isn't, and there's a huge difference between starting (and successfully continuing) a relationship, and picking up drunk girls in bars.
...Now I think things are at PM level, if you still wanna discuss this, haha.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by TheMasterKey on Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:20 pm

We're getting lost in misinterpretation. Safe to say this discussion has run it's course.

I'm gonna bow out of this thread.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Journeyman on Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:32 pm

^^ heh, the forum seems to have an unnecessarily strict (by my standards) word censor. I hadn't realized.

And TMK, I don't think I misinterpreted anything--I responded directly to the quoted text... and with me too, that's basically all I had to say.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Journeyman on Thu Jan 03, 2013 9:41 pm

Back on topic--saw The Hobbit last night and thought it was totally amazing. Lengthy, sure, but the drawn out scenes matched the book pretty well--if you liked the book you'll really appreciate things like Bilbo and Gollum's riddle-game, which is pretty much full length in book time (15 minutes or so).
The individual '13 dwarves' were really well fleshed out in terms of character, at least for about half of them (I guess we'll get more detail from the others in the next 2 movies) and the flashbacks for dwarvish history were really well done, condensed the backstory into an easy-to-understand piece for anyone not a total geek for Tolkein's lost writings (I'm not) and providing some pretty solid action in the early bits of the story.
Lots of good humor and some slapstick action as well. It's definitely got a lighter tone that the LOTR trilogy but does a good job setting up for that without seeming too overly prequel-ish, I think.
9/10, some repetitive bits were a little annoying for me. GF loved it too, and she's pretty much the 'average watcher', I think--again, I'm not Tolkein-obsessed but I was pretty into it, but if she enjoyed it you probably will too. I liked it better than any other recent release that I'd seen, even if the comparisons aren't really fair in some cases (i.e. comparing The Hobbit to Skyfall, Looper, Batman, Avengers, Dredd, etc.) but yeah... go see it. It's great.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Josh T. on Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:11 pm

I 2nd the Hobbit. He follows it fairly well. Also, the book has a lighter tone than the rest of the LOTR books anyhow, so he did well in that regard. I didn't quite remember everything in it however, which means I'm gonna have to go back and read it again, for the 7th time or so haha. Big fan of Tolkien. I actually have his lost writings books (a couple of them anyway), and I really like the world he set up. One of the most complex fantasy/storytelling worlds ever set up, in my opinion.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by MF! on Fri Jan 04, 2013 7:50 pm

Hobbit was cool once the action started going. I loved the book when I read it a long while back (i think i was 12 or 13 yo), but thought the first half was slow to start. Since the movie follows pretty closely with the book, I thought the same about the film. I'm looking forward to seeing the second part.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Journeyman on Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:18 pm

Yeah Tolkien basically set the base for modern fantasy, imo--the entire swords and horses genre basically emerged from his writings.
And I have very high hopes for Hobbit #2 and #3. Seeing middle earth again as peter jackson's creation was really cool.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Dave on Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:29 pm

So it is him again this time around. I only read the first Hobbit, never any of the rest of Tolkien's stuff. My only knowledge of LOTR came from the movies. From the sound of it I'll want to check out the Hobbits.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Dave on Fri Jan 04, 2013 8:31 pm

By the way, these guys make a really good point.

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Journeyman on Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:04 pm

Indeed. HISHE is pretty accurate, generally, haha.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by MF! on Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:56 pm

Just saw this trailer. Reminds me of Jet Li's earlier movie Kung Fu Cult Master

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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

Post by Josh T. on Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:15 pm

The Man from Nowhere is another good one.

Old Boy was disturbing. Thanks for that guys, haha.

Shaolin (2011), is also a great movie. Preachy (buddhist principles), but a very good story nonetheless.
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Re: I like movies (i know you do too)

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