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Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Josh T. on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:16 am

Jman, I would like to see the articles pertaining to rotating lifts, if you don't mind man.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Dave on Mon Jan 07, 2013 12:47 pm

Yes, and let it henceforth and forever be known as a given that ANY time you mention ANY article as being worth reading, you can count on the fact that I want to see it too.
;)
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Journeyman on Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:31 pm

Iliander wrote:
Cheesedog wrote:and I don't bench press since I don't have a bench, and I have no idea what weighted pushups would equal to.
You can use a scale to see the amount of weight you're pushing. But keep in mind that a push-up becomes more and more incline push-up on the way up. It's not constantly the same angle.

Not to mention that pushups, being closed-chain are gonna be inherently easier with the same weight.

Josh and Dave, I'll make a thread--but seriously, all his articles are very simple. No science or blathering, just 'hey, rotating lifts is a good idea, you should do it!

The idea is focused on heavy density work. The problem with 5020 or EDT is that you burn out insanely fast. Progress comes quickly but you also crash quickly. So, instead of going twice a week for 3 weeks (6 sessions) then taking a week off, which holds off the possibility of burnout/injury, Bryce had the idea to only use a lift for 2 weeks, then switch. This seems about right to me, because I've 'run out of steam' on heavy density work after about 5 or 6 sessions, every time I've done it. So, use a lift for 2 weeks/4 sessions, hit a small PR, then switch over. The PRs add up by the time you rotate the same lift back in.
Anyway, it's not a perfect solution or secret weapon or anything, but it should be fun especially because given my school schedules/breaks and everything, I can't really have long term plans in a training cycle these days. So I'm looking forwards to trying it out.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Dave on Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:01 pm

That does sound pretty good. I've no doubt I'll use that approach once or thrice this year as well.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Journeyman on Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:40 pm

Yep, I'm a big fan of density stuff. My only problem with it is that your recovery in terms of food/sleep has to be right on or it won't work at all; and it gives you nothing in terms of 'walking around strength'.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Dave on Mon Jan 07, 2013 9:44 pm

Meaning you'r always riding the ragged edge of heavy recovery... ?
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Journeyman on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:17 pm

Something like that... unless you just do it with bwe's (as we've both done with pretty good results using pullups, yes?) you just have nothing else, the 20 minute lift eats you up. You have to make the 20-minute sessions the focal point of training/life for a while, just in terms of not tiring yourself out with anything else; and you can't really work on many other lifts simultaneously. So, not great if you're doing a sport/working a physical job or even being active in general... or if you have problems getting tons of food/sleep.
There is a big payoff though if you can get everything properly aligned to do the program correctly. It's kinda like 20-rep squats or smolov or other high demand/high risk/high reward programs.

-edit-
Yeah, by walking around strength I mean just that. Even when I was just doing it with db benches for a while this past fall I felt pretty beat up around my elbows/shoulders in general; you get stronger in the gym but there's not much carryover until afterwards. Part of it might be the low frequency and high intensity/volume combination that makes you tired? Maybe if you're really smart with cycling/recovery you can feel some everyday carryover... that's what I wanna experiment with this semester because I do like feeling strong in places other than the gym, if that makes sense.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Josh T. on Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:26 pm

I think the 'walking around strength' is an over time thing, to be honest. I've noticed it most when I've been playing basketball recently. I was able to keep what must have been a 230lbs-260lbs guy from backing me up in the post, which is not an easy task haha. Anyway, as you get stronger over time, and you apply that strength in other situations, it's more noticeable imo.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Dave on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:22 pm

Journeyman wrote:Something like that... unless you just do it with bwe's (as we've both done with pretty good results using pullups, yes?)

Indeed. I'm looking forward to hitting pullups hard this year again at some point so I can hit 25 strict. EDT blocks seem like the way to go.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Journeyman on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:22 pm

Oh yeah, definitely. I was referring to just feeling strong everywhere during training, which for me seems to come at times when I'm doing fairly high frequency stuff, not beating myself up too much, and really focusing on grip work or at least heavy pulls.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Journeyman on Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:24 pm

Dave--yeah, the EDT thing is perfect for pullups or bodyweight squats, it's just gotta be something light that can recover basically instantly.
As I've said, it can be great for heavy stuff too, but you have to be much more careful and aren't assured of success.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Journeyman on Tue Jan 08, 2013 3:33 am

1/7/13

Double 24kg press: 24 reps in just under 13 minutes. Got a bit of a twinge in my left rear delt/rotator cuff area and stopped there.

Some one arm upright rows with 24kg and then 16kg

25 kirk shrugs and 25 regular squeeze shrugs with double 24s in about 5 minutes

Rotator cuff work

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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Journeyman on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:42 pm

1/8/13

16kg x100 kb snatch, switching hands every 10

double 24kg x50 shrugs

Free squats x90 or so, treating this as postural work now like all leg stuff... makes them pretty uncomfortable. Gonna do some bodyweight leg work everyday now, methinks.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by itlives on Tue Jan 08, 2013 11:49 pm

Good pressing young one!
Hope your shoulder is ok!
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Journeyman on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:18 am

Shoulder's fine, thanks. Any sort of density work with is rough, especially with a 6RM; but I wanna nab a few sessions with double 24s before heading off to school this coming Monday.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Journeyman on Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:34 am

1/10/13

Double 24kg Clean + press x5
Push press x5 + jerk x5

RBRDL 155x50 pr +20lb (but maybe pr +10 if this bar is underweight...)
DL 225x1 + 30s hold, DO grip

bodyweight squats x100

--Ended up on the floor for a few minutes after this one and I still can't close my hands. Just wanted to see if I could still do the 'batsh!t crazy HIT' type stuff, still.
Answer: yes, kinda, but OUCH. Conditioning needs work too.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Dave on Thu Jan 10, 2013 6:29 am

You know after looking at pics of David Rigert and watching some of your vids, am I crazy or do the two of you share a degree of facial likeness? I think you do!
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Journeyman on Thu Jan 10, 2013 4:00 pm

None that I can tell, actually.
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He was awesome, but his 'strict' press was one of the ugliest ever. Knee bend, huge layback... one of those lifters favored by his own Russian judges.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Journeyman on Sat Jan 12, 2013 2:09 am

1/12
275 DL cold--think that's a pr in terms of no warmups, hah.

One arm barbell press, worked up to 80lb x1/1, failed with 90 both arms.

--'80' is definitely more like 70, and '90' more like 80 with this bar; at least in terms of small plates.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Cesar on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:17 pm

Journeyman wrote:1/7/13

Double 24kg press: 24 reps in just under 13 minutes. Got a bit of a twinge in my left rear delt/rotator cuff area and stopped there.

Some one arm upright rows with 24kg and then 16kg

25 kirk shrugs and 25 regular squeeze shrugs with double 24s in about 5 minutes

Rotator cuff work


double 24s x 24 in 13 mins...nice. HIT sounds good as you recommended.
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Re: Off the ground and overhead: Jman's log

Post by Cesar on Wed Jan 23, 2013 6:18 pm

Journeyman wrote:1/10/13

Double 24kg Clean + press x5
Push press x5 + jerk x5

RBRDL 155x50 pr +20lb (but maybe pr +10 if this bar is underweight...)
DL 225x1 + 30s hold, DO grip

bodyweight squats x100

--Ended up on the floor for a few minutes after this one and I still can't close my hands. Just wanted to see if I could still do the 'batsh!t crazy HIT' type stuff, still.
Answer: yes, kinda, but OUCH. Conditioning needs work too.

I bet. I keep thinking about the work that Squatty is doing as I let the articles you posted marinate. I am going to stick with cheese to build endurance and then work on HIT
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