PhysicalCulture.canadian-forum.com
Some parts of the forum are not accessible to non-members, so be sure to join right away!

Post your training log, get involved in challenges, and add to our vault of fitness and physical culture wisdom!



Messages posted on this forum express the opinions of their respective authors and not necessarily those of anyone else. You agree to not hold anyone responsible for the content of any post but the author thereof and anyone who expresses agreement with him or her.

Messages with an attacking, demeaning or slanderous tone are prohibited.

Messages or usernames which promote, evoke or encourage unlawful, lewd or immoral practices are prohibited.

Vulgarities, curses and racial slurs as well as religious blasphemies, curses and exclamations, are offensive and neither pleasant nor welcome.

Copyrighted materials may not be posted without the express approval of the copyright holder, such approval to be displayed along with the content. If you notice material that is copyrighted but no permission is listed with it, you agree to report it to a moderator or to admin.

Post your messages only once. Double posting (this does not refer to accidentally replying twice to a post, but to creating multiple threads with identical content in multiple sections of the forum) is incredibly annoying and double posts will be deleted.

Make an effort on grammar and spelling. Using nothing but SMS-style language or l33t speech (ex: y r u h3re m8?) is unsophisticated, annoying and not welcome!

You accept that messages contravening the listing above may be edited or removed without need for notice and that transgressions deemed severe enough may be met with banning. Be helpful, kind and respectful to one another, and let's keep this community great!

My workout program for mass, need some opinions

View previous topic View next topic Go down

My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by David3060 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:38 am

I'd like to add myself a decent mass + drop like 5 KG of fat..

A:
Chest and Triceps - wide and close pushups: 3X10-15 each, add 1 or 2 more sets if I'll feel the need. eventually get to a one-arm pushups workout.
ABS - sit ups and hanging leg rises: 3X10-15 each, add 1 or 2 more sets if I'll feel the need, holding L and V sits for 15 secs.

B:
Back and biceps - pullups and horizontal rows : 3X12-15, add 1 or 2 more sets if I'll feel the need. eventually get to a one-arm pullup workout.
Lower back - Scooby Dead lift 3X10. (with barbell)

C:
Shoulders - Handstand pushups : 3X12-15, add 1 or 2 more sets if I'll feel the need. eventually get to a one-arm Handstand pushup workout.
Legs - pistol squats : 3X12-15, add 1 or 2 more sets if I'll feel the need. sprints and rope jumping.
Core - Planks, planche and levers training.

I was thinking doing this 3 days on 1 day off, because I Don't do isolation at all.

I don't have a gym membership, but I have dumbbells at home.


David3060
Initiate
Initiate

Posts : 14
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-01-11

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Dave on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:52 am

Looks good, do it.
avatar
Dave
Admin
Admin

Posts : 7971
Reputation : 169
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 36
Location : Peterborough, Canada

http://physicalculture.canadian-forum.com

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Iliander on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:42 am

The definition of core is abs + obliques + low back. I suggest doing your lever & planche progressions at the beginning of the ABC cycle.
avatar
Iliander
Incredible
Incredible

Posts : 2300
Reputation : 52
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 21
Location : Belgium

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Josh T. on Mon Jan 28, 2013 9:44 am

False. If we're getting REALLY technical, core = abs, obliques, lower back, lats, hips. Any muscles that contribute to force transmission and stabilization of the torso are included.
avatar
Josh T.
Young Gun
Young Gun

Posts : 505
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2012-12-02

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Iliander on Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:08 am

Josh T. wrote:False. If we're getting REALLY technical, core = abs, obliques, lower back, lats, hips. Any muscles that contribute to force transmission and stabilization of the torso are included.
My definition of core is anything that bends the spine forwards, backwards, and sideways. Lats work from the shoulder joint... :scratch:
avatar
Iliander
Incredible
Incredible

Posts : 2300
Reputation : 52
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 21
Location : Belgium

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Josh T. on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:32 am

You're neglecting stabilization. The lats have several attachment points along the SPINE. If lats weren't important for stabilizing, then Pavel wouldn't recommend lat tension for one arm push-ups, powerlifters wouldn't consciously flex their lats on the negative portion of a bench press, and they wouldn't squeeze their lats (well, depending on pulling style...) when deadlifting.

The lats (one of the, if not the, longest muscles in the body; they significantly overlap...the fibers that is) are huge, and the more tension you can create, the more stability you have, the more force you can apply. Hope that makes sense.
avatar
Josh T.
Young Gun
Young Gun

Posts : 505
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2012-12-02

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Iliander on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:58 am

Josh T. wrote:You're neglecting stabilization. The lats have several attachment points along the SPINE. If lats weren't important for stabilizing, then Pavel wouldn't recommend lat tension for one arm push-ups, powerlifters wouldn't consciously flex their lats on the negative portion of a bench press, and they wouldn't squeeze their lats (well, depending on pulling style...) when deadlifting.

The lats (one of the, if not the, longest muscles in the body; they significantly overlap...the fibers that is) are huge, and the more tension you can create, the more stability you have, the more force you can apply. Hope that makes sense.
As far as I can see the bottom position of a one arm push-up requires a lot of lat tension because the upper arm is in line with the body, and this enables isometric shoulder adduction to keep you from losing balance. I mean, every muscle functions as a stabilizer in at least some movement. The fact that the abs, obliques and low back are all used as stabilizers in many exercises/movements, doesn't mean every muscle that somehow acts as a stabilizer is considered part of the "core."
avatar
Iliander
Incredible
Incredible

Posts : 2300
Reputation : 52
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 21
Location : Belgium

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Josh T. on Mon Jan 28, 2013 12:42 pm

I'm talking about muscles that stabilize the torso. The lats have attachments to the spine, and stabilize the torso in many different movements.

Take a full Standing Ab-Wheel Roll-Out, for example. To keep your back from over extending (you should be slightly hollow throughout), your abs, obliques, glutes (hips), and lats are all firing like crazy. When I was working SROs in my routine a couple of years back, my rectus abdominis and lats were the muscles that got most sore (rectus still much more than lats). This goes for almost any advanced abdominal movement, actually. A full static front lever, dragon flags, any planche statics, etc.
avatar
Josh T.
Young Gun
Young Gun

Posts : 505
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2012-12-02

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Iliander on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:32 pm

Josh T. wrote:I'm talking about muscles that stabilize the torso. The lats have attachments to the spine, and stabilize the torso in many different movements.

Take a full Standing Ab-Wheel Roll-Out, for example. To keep your back from over extending (you should be slightly hollow throughout), your abs, obliques, glutes (hips), and lats are all firing like crazy. When I was working SROs in my routine a couple of years back, my rectus abdominis and lats were the muscles that got most sore (rectus still much more than lats). This goes for almost any advanced abdominal movement, actually. A full static front lever, dragon flags, any planche statics, etc.
Aren't just the abs responsible for the prevention of overextending your back during ab rollouts? Because the crunch motion (spine flexion) is the opposite of spine extension. Spine flexion also isn't a stabilizing movement during the ab rollout, it's part of the movement itself, I think. The shoulder extension is what uses the lats in the ab rollout.

lol I'm just trying to figure out what stabilizing movement works the lats?! :confused: :scratch: :toothy:
avatar
Iliander
Incredible
Incredible

Posts : 2300
Reputation : 52
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 21
Location : Belgium

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Josh T. on Mon Jan 28, 2013 2:55 pm

You're thinking too much in terms of a single muscle doing a single job, instead of thinking about the interplay that exists between muscles on various movements. There is a big synergistic effect in play in pretty much all movements, isolated, gymnastics, weights, whatever.

The rectus not only flexes the spine, it also RESISTS extension. In a proper rollout, you are maintaining a slightly hollow position throughout, not actively flexing the spine; so your abs are resisting extension, your obliques are also resisting rotation in the transverse plane to an extent (dependent upon the ab wheel), your lats are resisting excessive shoulder flexion and producing some degree of extension on the concentric, your glutes are posteriorly tilting your pelvis; the position of your pelvis has a big influence on spinal positioning, so you could say that technically, by flexing your glutes (you better be), your glutes are also resisting lumbar extension.

I could go on and on... if you want to learn more about the stuff behind what I just described (termed functional anatomy), look up Mike Robertson and Eric Cressey. They write a lot about this stuff.

Anyhow, sorry about the thread hijack... :hijack:
avatar
Josh T.
Young Gun
Young Gun

Posts : 505
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2012-12-02

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Iliander on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:09 pm

That makes sense. Thanks for the names, just found a whole lot of interesting articles muahaha!

Anyways let's end the discussion here, we're being off-topic after all.
avatar
Iliander
Incredible
Incredible

Posts : 2300
Reputation : 52
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 21
Location : Belgium

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Journeyman on Mon Jan 28, 2013 3:56 pm

Looks decent, OP.

1. focus on progression, more reps/sets/resistance very time
2. What the **** is a 'scooby' deadlift? It better not have anything to do with that retard on youtube.

Josh and Ili, interesting discussion about how we define the 'lats'... couldn't it also depend on attachment points? My lats attach very low on my back, and probably help a lot with midsection/spinal stabilization. Someone who has 'shorter' or 'wider' lats just due to attachment placement, might not be able to use them so much for that core involvement.
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Iliander on Mon Jan 28, 2013 4:56 pm

Journeyman wrote:Josh and Ili, interesting discussion about how we define the 'lats'... couldn't it also depend on attachment points? My lats attach very low on my back, and probably help a lot with midsection/spinal stabilization. Someone who has 'shorter' or 'wider' lats just due to attachment placement, might not be able to use them so much for that core involvement.
Interesting point. My lats seem to be the opposite of yours, really high attachment points and quite wide.
avatar
Iliander
Incredible
Incredible

Posts : 2300
Reputation : 52
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 21
Location : Belgium

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Journeyman on Mon Jan 28, 2013 5:03 pm

I'm not sure whether I'd consider mine narrow, relatively speaking, but they do attach pretty low. Either way, things like that can definitely affect the function of a muscle, I think. I'm sure that torso length is at least one contributing factor to lat attachment points, and the leverages associated with differences in torso length could change things too, I guess.

High attachments--bruce lee, dennis wolf, matt kroc
Low attachments--bob peoples, kai greene, konstantin konstantinovs
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by David3060 on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:14 pm

Journeyman wrote:Looks decent, OP.

1. focus on progression, more reps/sets/resistance very time
2. What the **** is a 'scooby' deadlift? It better not have anything to do with that retard on youtube.


1. yes I will
2. It actually has lol, It's a deadlift just with much lighter weight and more reps (10-12) and doing it with more TUT.


David3060
Initiate
Initiate

Posts : 14
Reputation : 0
Join date : 2013-01-11

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Josh T. on Mon Jan 28, 2013 11:30 pm

Seeing as attachment points and tendon insertion plays a pretty big role ultimately in strength potential (imo), yeah, that could definitely be the case Jman.
avatar
Josh T.
Young Gun
Young Gun

Posts : 505
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2012-12-02

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Journeyman on Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:35 am

David3060 wrote:
Journeyman wrote:Looks decent, OP.

1. focus on progression, more reps/sets/resistance very time
2. What the **** is a 'scooby' deadlift? It better not have anything to do with that retard on youtube.


1. yes I will
2. It actually has lol, It's a deadlift just with much lighter weight and more reps (10-12) and doing it with more TUT.


There is literally no point to doing a deadlift 'light'. Moderate reps and TUT is usually some sort of RDL variant, but you shouldn't be counting seconds or anything like that.
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Dave on Tue Jan 29, 2013 4:57 am

The "Scooby deadlift" is Scooby's SLDL/RDL hybrid. Doing it light is fine, but not for 10-12 reps at a time, unless as a warm up.
avatar
Dave
Admin
Admin

Posts : 7971
Reputation : 169
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 36
Location : Peterborough, Canada

http://physicalculture.canadian-forum.com

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Journeyman on Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:59 am

No RDL for 10-12 reps?
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Bissen on Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:02 am

Everything the others said regarding stabilization. You probably consider front lever, planche, back lever etc. as exercises that require good core strength, no? Well, it may require decent core strength, but much more than that, it requires shoulders and lats. The limiting factor in those moves are often shoulders.

Regarding DL's, they aren't really made for high reps IMO, however, if going light enough, low rep + high TUT is fine; at least as far as I've read - I do it myself, but for stabilization as mentioned, but more than anyting, FORM FIX.
avatar
Bissen
Masterful
Masterful

Posts : 333
Reputation : 5
Join date : 2012-12-04
Age : 26
Location : Denmark

http://www.moarninjaplz.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Dave on Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:07 am

I think deadlifts are great in high reps. And I just found that out about this new opinion of mine tonight as a matter of fact!

Journeyman wrote:No RDL for 10-12 reps?

What I'm saying is why use a light weight (as in the kind you can throw around like a toy) for less reps than would be a challenge. Although probably nobody was saying that in the first place, so I humbly digress.
avatar
Dave
Admin
Admin

Posts : 7971
Reputation : 169
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 36
Location : Peterborough, Canada

http://physicalculture.canadian-forum.com

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Journeyman on Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:15 am

Bissen wrote:
Regarding DL's, they aren't really made for high reps IMO

I would just say, don't go 'light' on your worksets. 'Heavy', is, of course, relative. Heavy for 50 reps is different from heavy for 1 rep... so I suppose that effort is my measuring marker here. If all you have is a pair of 50# dummbells but you work up to doing RDLs for 100 reps without putting them down, you'll be stronger than when you started. And this will carry over to your 1RM and everything in between, especially if you take some time to taper down in reps. The bigger the base the higher the pyramid an' all that.
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Josh T. on Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:51 am

Bissen wrote:Everything the others said regarding stabilization. You probably consider front lever, planche, back lever etc. as exercises that require good core strength, no? Well, it may require decent core strength, but much more than that, it requires shoulders and lats. The limiting factor in those moves are often shoulders.

That's certainly true, but debatable for some portions of the population. The best example I can think of is Hannibal - his planches have a very ugly swayback thing going on. That's also at least probably partially due to his motor pattern for the skill...but still. A lot of guys have that swayback, actually...they're not strong enough in the midsection to maintain that hollow position.
avatar
Josh T.
Young Gun
Young Gun

Posts : 505
Reputation : 10
Join date : 2012-12-02

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Journeyman on Tue Jan 29, 2013 2:56 pm

I hadn't actually noticed that. It's much harder for me to try to do any sort of extended/stabilization move with swayback though.
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Bissen on Tue Jan 29, 2013 5:07 pm

Josh T. wrote:
Bissen wrote:Everything the others said regarding stabilization. You probably consider front lever, planche, back lever etc. as exercises that require good core strength, no? Well, it may require decent core strength, but much more than that, it requires shoulders and lats. The limiting factor in those moves are often shoulders.

That's certainly true, but debatable for some portions of the population. The best example I can think of is Hannibal - his planches have a very ugly swayback thing going on. That's also at least probably partially due to his motor pattern for the skill...but still. A lot of guys have that swayback, actually...they're not strong enough in the midsection to maintain that hollow position.
I actually think Ido Portal wrote a note on it pretty recently. I believe he's worked with a lot of people who claim to have a planche, but only with a sway.
Personally, what's holding me back from a more advances tuck front lever is not my core, but most definitely my shoulder girdle. But I may have an exceptionally weak shoulder girdle (I honestly wouldn't be surprised).
avatar
Bissen
Masterful
Masterful

Posts : 333
Reputation : 5
Join date : 2012-12-04
Age : 26
Location : Denmark

http://www.moarninjaplz.blogspot.com

Back to top Go down

Re: My workout program for mass, need some opinions

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum