PhysicalCulture.canadian-forum.com
Some parts of the forum are not accessible to non-members, so be sure to join right away!

Post your training log, get involved in challenges, and add to our vault of fitness and physical culture wisdom!



Messages posted on this forum express the opinions of their respective authors and not necessarily those of anyone else. You agree to not hold anyone responsible for the content of any post but the author thereof and anyone who expresses agreement with him or her.

Messages with an attacking, demeaning or slanderous tone are prohibited.

Messages or usernames which promote, evoke or encourage unlawful, lewd or immoral practices are prohibited.

Vulgarities, curses and racial slurs as well as religious blasphemies, curses and exclamations, are offensive and neither pleasant nor welcome.

Copyrighted materials may not be posted without the express approval of the copyright holder, such approval to be displayed along with the content. If you notice material that is copyrighted but no permission is listed with it, you agree to report it to a moderator or to admin.

Post your messages only once. Double posting (this does not refer to accidentally replying twice to a post, but to creating multiple threads with identical content in multiple sections of the forum) is incredibly annoying and double posts will be deleted.

Make an effort on grammar and spelling. Using nothing but SMS-style language or l33t speech (ex: y r u h3re m8?) is unsophisticated, annoying and not welcome!

You accept that messages contravening the listing above may be edited or removed without need for notice and that transgressions deemed severe enough may be met with banning. Be helpful, kind and respectful to one another, and let's keep this community great!

Help needed with routine

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Help needed with routine

Post by Axel on Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:42 pm

Hey,

I'm new here and I would like some help with my training routine before I start a log. A few weeks ago I bought myself some dumbells and a gym membership. It's a gym for students so most of the stuff are like machines and I'm not really interested in that. But you can do stuff like assisted chinups (with weights) which is kinda nice.

Push-ups (serie from convict conditioning)
Dumbell Squat
Leg raises
Dumbell Overhead press
Assisted chinups
Incline pullups
Planks

I also started running 2-3 times a week.

The next 6months I'll have plenty of time. I'm a fairly disciplined person, I try to meditate 1 hour a day, don't have any computer or tv in my dorm room so when I'm there I'm sleeping, meditating, studying, learning guitar or doing some strenght training.

Gaining another 3 kg over the next 6 months would be really nice.That's my goal. :)

This is what I have now

Workout A: Pushups - Dumbell Squats - Leg Raises - Dumbell Overhead Press
Workout B: Horizontal Rows - Bridges - Planks



Last edited by Axel on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
avatar
Axel
Experienced
Experienced

Posts : 75
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2013-01-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Dave on Fri Mar 22, 2013 7:48 pm

What are incline pullups? Are they the same thing as horizontal rows?

Also, add in some posterior chain work. Bridges, deadlifts, GHR's, reverse planks, something.
avatar
Dave
Admin
Admin

Posts : 7971
Reputation : 169
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 36
Location : Peterborough, Canada

http://physicalculture.canadian-forum.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Journeyman on Fri Mar 22, 2013 8:24 pm

^ That.
Also, favor partial chinups, bar hangs, and horizontal rows over the assisted pullup machine, it's basically useless.
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Axel on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:23 pm

Yes, I meant horizontal rows. (Don't know where the incline pullups thing came from :roll: )

I used to do the bridge excercices from the convict conditioning, but I felt like I was doing gymnastics instead of working out :)
avatar
Axel
Experienced
Experienced

Posts : 75
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2013-01-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Dave on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:32 pm

Axel wrote:I used to do the bridge excercices from the convict conditioning, but I felt like I was doing gymnastics instead of working out :)

That's kind of like saying "I felt like I was writing a masterpiece symphony instead of doodling on the piano". ;)
avatar
Dave
Admin
Admin

Posts : 7971
Reputation : 169
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 36
Location : Peterborough, Canada

http://physicalculture.canadian-forum.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Axel on Sat Mar 23, 2013 12:53 pm

I put them back into my routine. See my initial post.
avatar
Axel
Experienced
Experienced

Posts : 75
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2013-01-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Dave on Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:23 pm

Good stuff Axel!


Last edited by Dave.cyco on Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:51 pm; edited 1 time in total
avatar
Dave
Admin
Admin

Posts : 7971
Reputation : 169
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 36
Location : Peterborough, Canada

http://physicalculture.canadian-forum.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Iliander on Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:34 pm

Welcome!

Yeah that looks good!

However training abs every day (leg raises & planks) might be too much.
avatar
Iliander
Incredible
Incredible

Posts : 2300
Reputation : 52
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 20
Location : Belgium

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by trainingforlife on Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:28 pm

Dont be so routined, life is not about routined movements. Unless your a body builder or your sport calles for you to perform X movement at X giving time then dont worry about Plain A & B. How boring is it to know Monday I am training chest and ab,Tuesday Back & Biceps,Wed blah blah blah. When SHTF its going to be about being able to move at a minutes notice and routine flys right out the window. Also if you want to gain 3kg thats what 6.6lbs just eat a lot of clean food.

trainingforlife
Masterful
Masterful

Posts : 625
Reputation : 23
Join date : 2012-12-02
Age : 41
Location : Ok

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoK7PpW9-MZvpiFtiuYVtLg

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Iliander on Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:37 pm

trainingforlife wrote:Dont be so routined, life is not about routined movements. Unless your a body builder or your sport calles for you to perform X movement at X giving time then dont worry about Plain A & B. How boring is it to know Monday I am training chest and ab,Tuesday Back & Biceps,Wed blah blah blah. When SHTF its going to be about being able to move at a minutes notice and routine flys right out the window. Also if you want to gain 3kg thats what 6.6lbs just eat a lot of clean food.
It's his choice. Having no routine as a beginner is a terrible mistake.
avatar
Iliander
Incredible
Incredible

Posts : 2300
Reputation : 52
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 20
Location : Belgium

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by trainingforlife on Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:40 pm

Example Only-Do all as fast as you can with good form unless noted.
Day 1.
5 rounds
Rest as needed between rounds
Push press 5-5-3-3-1x

Day 2.
Time trial
Cover max distance
Run 20 minutes

Day 3.
3 rounds
Run 800m
10x Burpee pull-ups
20x Walking lunge steps, each leg
30x Push-ups
40x Squats
50x Double-unders

Day 4.
For max distance
KB Farmer's walk for 12 minutes holding 2x53# KBs
Stop at top of each minute and do 5x burpees

Day 5.
For time
1600m on a track, using either Bear Crawl, Crab Walk, or Broad Jump to move

Day 6.
Max rounds in 15 minutes
Row 250m Run if no rower
25x Push-ups

Day 7.
10x Sumo deadlift high pull (95#/65#)
15x Squat jumps
20x Ring push-ups (normal push-ups if no rings)

Day 8.
6 rounds
50# sandbag carry, 400m
12x Push press (115#)
12x Box jumps (24 inch)
12x Sumo deadlift high pulls (95#)

Day 9
For time
50x Burpees
75x Flutterkicks (4-count)
100x Push-ups
150x Sit-ups

Day 10
Max rounds in 20 minutes
15x Pull-ups
10x Pistols
5x Handstand push-ups

Day. 11
5 rounds
20x Pull-ups
30x Push-ups
40x Sit-ups
50x Squats
Time each round, rest 3 minutes between rounds

Day 12
Every minute on the minute for 10 minutes
7x Squat jumps
7x Sprawl
7x Push-ups
7x Sit-ups

Day 13
5 rounds
5x Burpees
10x Mountain climbers
15x Tuck jumps

Day 14
20 rounds
5x Pull-ups
5x Push-ups
5x Sit-ups
5x Squats


Now thats what life gives you not a bunch of Plain A's & B's
Good luck demand more of your self, train for life not the gym and there is not such thing as over training just under resting.


trainingforlife
Masterful
Masterful

Posts : 625
Reputation : 23
Join date : 2012-12-02
Age : 41
Location : Ok

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoK7PpW9-MZvpiFtiuYVtLg

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by trainingforlife on Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:45 pm

Iliander wrote:
trainingforlife wrote:Dont be so routined, life is not about routined movements. Unless your a body builder or your sport calles for you to perform X movement at X giving time then dont worry about Plain A & B. How boring is it to know Monday I am training chest and ab,Tuesday Back & Biceps,Wed blah blah blah. When SHTF its going to be about being able to move at a minutes notice and routine flys right out the window. Also if you want to gain 3kg thats what 6.6lbs just eat a lot of clean food.
It's his choice. Having no routine as a beginner is a terrible mistake.

His choice correct,but he posted for help or tips and thats what I gave him.
No routine as a beginner is a great thing to have because he is open minded.

I train 20+ 5 days a week and not one has a routine. If you set into a routine you will find ways to work your strong area and excuses to not train the weak. If your training sessions are 100% random then you never know what will come at you there for your mind set changes and you have more of a drive to be good at everything.

trainingforlife
Masterful
Masterful

Posts : 625
Reputation : 23
Join date : 2012-12-02
Age : 41
Location : Ok

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoK7PpW9-MZvpiFtiuYVtLg

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by trainingforlife on Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:54 pm

Learn the basic of the Body Squat,Sit-ups,Push-ups,Chin/Pull-up, & HSPU. Learn the basic power and strength movements Squat,Bench,Dead Lifts,Clean & Press. Once you have learned the basic you randomize the routine and you pepare for everything. I am not saying never do the movements alone,but dont make single non compound movements and every day thing. Lets say monday is chest and triceps with 30 minutes of cardio and abs. That will be 1 workout for an hour or so will at some point you should do more complex workout like
20 min AMRAP
Push-ups
Toes 2 Bar
Ring Dips
Sit-ups

Lvl 1.5-10 reps each
Lvl 2. 10-15 reps each
Lvl 3. 20-30 reps each
Lvl 4. 40-50 rep each

Unless his or someones goal is to be a body builder, strongman,powerlifter or Oly lifter there should be no reason to focus primally on gym lifts and isolated movements

trainingforlife
Masterful
Masterful

Posts : 625
Reputation : 23
Join date : 2012-12-02
Age : 41
Location : Ok

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoK7PpW9-MZvpiFtiuYVtLg

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Iliander on Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:41 pm

I don't get your point. You're even contradicting yourself.

You can't improve on A by doing B. You're telling him to do ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ all the time to come back at A and find little to no improvement.

Focus on something for a while and improve on that. Don't immediately jump to something else because "you have to shock your muscles."

You don't have to do everything to get better at everything.

He's a beginner and has to start from the basics and keep things simple.
avatar
Iliander
Incredible
Incredible

Posts : 2300
Reputation : 52
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 20
Location : Belgium

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by trainingforlife on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:04 pm

Iliander wrote:I don't get your point. You're even contradicting yourself.
My point dont just train to be good at A&B

You can't improve on A by doing B. You're telling him to do ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ all the time to come back at A and find little to no improvement.
Wrong I am saying learn A&B,but also do CDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.

Focus on something for a while and improve on that. Don't immediately jump to something else because "you have to shock your muscles."
Learn the basic,get good at the basic then shock the crap out of your muscles.

You don't have to do everything to get better at everything.
Really your saying if all I do is push-ups,sit-ups,air squats and burpees I will have a great dead lift, clean & jerk,muscle up,back flip and also be about to run an ultra. (50+ miles)

He's a beginner and has to start from the basics and keep things simple.
Again yes learn the basic and then(key word here,then) do the random.
I also didnt say do just random I say add it to A&B .



trainingforlife
Masterful
Masterful

Posts : 625
Reputation : 23
Join date : 2012-12-02
Age : 41
Location : Ok

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoK7PpW9-MZvpiFtiuYVtLg

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by trainingforlife on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:07 pm

trainingforlife wrote:Learn the basic of the Body Squat,Sit-ups,Push-ups,Chin/Pull-up, & HSPU. Learn the basic power and strength movements Squat,Bench,Dead Lifts,Clean & Press. Once you have learned the basic you randomize the routine and you pepare for everything. I am not saying never do the movements alone,but dont make single non compound movements and every day thing. Lets say monday is chest and triceps with 30 minutes of cardio and abs. That will be 1 workout for an hour or so will at some point you should do more complex workout like
20 min AMRAP
Push-ups
Toes 2 Bar
Ring Dips
Sit-ups

Lvl 1.5-10 reps each
Lvl 2. 10-15 reps each
Lvl 3. 20-30 reps each
Lvl 4. 40-50 rep each

Unless his or someones goal is to be a body builder, strongman,powerlifter or Oly lifter there should be no reason to focus primally on gym lifts and isolated movements

PLEASE READ UNDERLINED TEXT

trainingforlife
Masterful
Masterful

Posts : 625
Reputation : 23
Join date : 2012-12-02
Age : 41
Location : Ok

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoK7PpW9-MZvpiFtiuYVtLg

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Journeyman on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:08 pm

Iliander wrote:I don't get your point. You're even contradicting yourself.

You can't improve on A by doing B. You're telling him to do ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ all the time to come back at A and find little to no improvement.

Focus on something for a while and improve on that. Don't immediately jump to something else because "you have to shock your muscles."

You don't have to do everything to get better at everything.

He's a beginner and has to start from the basics and keep things simple.

This.
Of course, one can improve on 'A' by doing 'B' but they would improve more on 'A' if they focused on 'A'... with a little 'B' on the side, perhaps, but not an 'alphabet soup' of training, if we're using that example.

You do this in your own training zazen--metcons are randomized but you use or have used 5-3-1 for strength training, iirc. That is a specific routine focusing on your big lifts because randomly adding bench and back squat to a circuit simply will not do for best results.

Also, life doesn't 'give you' anything of the sort. The most functional training anyone could do is progressively adding weight to their iphone, tv remote and soup spoon. It's all about being healthy and having fun; and if having fun is competing in powerlifting, or completing triathlons, or learning to do handstands and one arm chins, or just being able to do pushups while jogging around the block it's up to you. And for best results, one should train specifically for goals if one has them. It's the 21st century, this 'life is tough' BS just doesn't apply. Heck, even if you're working a manual labor job, people have gotten by lifting boxes without doing circuit training to 'help with the rigors of daily life' for about 3000 years now.
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Journeyman on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:09 pm

trainingforlife wrote:
trainingforlife wrote:Learn the basic of the Body Squat,Sit-ups,Push-ups,Chin/Pull-up, & HSPU. Learn the basic power and strength movements Squat,Bench,Dead Lifts,Clean & Press. Once you have learned the basic you randomize the routine and you pepare for everything. I am not saying never do the movements alone,but dont make single non compound movements and every day thing. Lets say monday is chest and triceps with 30 minutes of cardio and abs. That will be 1 workout for an hour or so will at some point you should do more complex workout like
20 min AMRAP
Push-ups
Toes 2 Bar
Ring Dips
Sit-ups

Lvl 1.5-10 reps each
Lvl 2. 10-15 reps each
Lvl 3. 20-30 reps each
Lvl 4. 40-50 rep each

Unless his or someones goal is to be a body builder, strongman,powerlifter or Oly lifter there should be no reason to focus primally on gym lifts and isolated movements

PLEASE READ UNDERLINED TEXT

Now that's more like it (emphasis).

1. Stick with the basics. Learn them.
2. Train specifically for your goal.
3. Incorporate variety if you wish.
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Iliander on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:17 pm

trainingforlife wrote:My point dont just train to be good at A&B
The point is that his A and B workouts are the only thing he needs right now.

Wrong I am saying learn A&B,but also do CDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ.
There is no possible way to learn all at the same time in an effective way. That's why you're wrong.

Learn the basic,get good at the basic then shock the crap out of your muscles.
No. Do what you want to improve on. And use some variation to speed up progress on the particular exercise, which most likely is an exercise that has a lot of carryover to other exercises.

Really your saying if all I do is push-ups,sit-ups,air squats and burpees I will have a great dead lift, clean & jerk,muscle up,back flip and also be about to run an ultra. (50+ miles)
You don't get it. Push-ups, sit-ups, squats and burpees would without doubt boost his current deadlift, clean and jerk, etc. And get him closer to a muscle-up and in some way also a back flip and an ultra. That's because those exercises will make him use all of his muscle groups.
avatar
Iliander
Incredible
Incredible

Posts : 2300
Reputation : 52
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 20
Location : Belgium

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by trainingforlife on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:23 pm

Journeyman wrote:This.
Of course, one can improve on 'A' by doing 'B' but they would improve more on 'A' if they focused on 'A'... with a little 'B' on the side, perhaps, but not an 'alphabet soup' of training, if we're using that example.

You do this in your own training zazen--metcons are randomized but you use or have used 5-3-1 for strength training, iirc. That is a specific routine focusing on your big lifts because randomly adding bench and back squat to a circuit simply will not do for best results.

Also, life doesn't 'give you' anything of the sort. The most functional training anyone could do is progressively adding weight to their iphone, tv remote and soup spoon. It's all about being healthy and having fun; and if having fun is competing in powerlifting, or completing triathlons, or learning to do handstands and one arm chins, or just being able to do pushups while jogging around the block it's up to you. And for best results, one should train specifically for goals if one has them. It's the 21st century, this 'life is tough' BS just doesn't apply. Heck, even if you're working a manual labor job, people have gotten by lifting boxes without doing circuit training to 'help with the rigors of daily life' for about 3000 years now.

Correct my A&B was powerlifting some peoples A&B are push-ups and dips. Now I add in the randomize to shock my body in a new way. Just like I have been saying do A&B, but not only A&B unless thats all you wish to be good at. As for the manual labor bit I find you dont know what your talking about. I was a ranch hand I did everything from run down cattle into pins,climb gates and 100ft stairs cases,carry 50lb bags of feed,throw 40lb blocks off salt and other stuff,flip 300+ tires, even hike miles with 30lb pack and a rifle on a weekly bases. This "labor " as you call it by lifting a few boxes is a joke. 10+ hours a day lifting,running,carrying,pull,and pushing your way thought life thats what life is all about. To each his own we will agree to look at training a differently. :igiveup:

trainingforlife
Masterful
Masterful

Posts : 625
Reputation : 23
Join date : 2012-12-02
Age : 41
Location : Ok

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoK7PpW9-MZvpiFtiuYVtLg

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by trainingforlife on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:37 pm

Iliander-
The point is that his A and B workouts are the only thing he needs right now. Agreed until he as learned them effectively then its time to learn more.

There is no possible way to learn all at the same time in an effective way. That's why you're wrong.
Wrong, its called multitasking. You practice more then one thing at a time. Just like you learn more then one gym lift at a time you learn other stuff at the same time.

No. Do what you want to improve on. And use some variation to speed up progress on the particular exercise, which most likely is an exercise that has a lot of carryover to other exercises.
So which is it only do A&B or like I said learn A&B then add in random movements. Your starting to contradict yourself,young man. YOUR WORDS-There is no possible way to learn all at the same time in an effective way. HOW IS HE GOING TO ADD IN THE RANDOM STUFF IF HE DOESNT LEARN IT FIRST, BUT HOW CAN HE LEARN IT IF ITS RANDOM LOL.

You don't get it. Push-ups, sit-ups, squats and burpees would without doubt boost his current deadlift, clean and jerk, etc. And get him closer to a muscle-up and in some way also a back flip and an ultra. That's because those exercises will make him use all of his muscle groups

All goes back to adding random lol dont worry you will learn and understand some day lol


trainingforlife
Masterful
Masterful

Posts : 625
Reputation : 23
Join date : 2012-12-02
Age : 41
Location : Ok

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoK7PpW9-MZvpiFtiuYVtLg

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by trainingforlife on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:44 pm

Good Example A&B are not enough

http://library.crossfit.com/free/pdf/CFJ_Stronger_Achauer_Replacement_10_2012.pdf

trainingforlife
Masterful
Masterful

Posts : 625
Reputation : 23
Join date : 2012-12-02
Age : 41
Location : Ok

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoK7PpW9-MZvpiFtiuYVtLg

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Dave on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:53 pm

I sure am glad this isn't his training log! :toothy:
avatar
Dave
Admin
Admin

Posts : 7971
Reputation : 169
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 36
Location : Peterborough, Canada

http://physicalculture.canadian-forum.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by trainingforlife on Sat Mar 23, 2013 4:57 pm

Dave.cyco wrote:I sure am glad this isn't his training log! :toothy:

I know right we just robbed this poor boy :lol!: :hijack:

Its great how everyone is so passion about their training. We all may not agree, but we all have the same ending a healthy life. :mario:

trainingforlife
Masterful
Masterful

Posts : 625
Reputation : 23
Join date : 2012-12-02
Age : 41
Location : Ok

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoK7PpW9-MZvpiFtiuYVtLg

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Rix on Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:17 pm

could just find a simple basic and interesting routine to get going, like some of the convict conditioning ones, but experiment on the side other training stuff, like supersetting stuff, circuit training. all that jazz. Then once your off and running you will know what you wanna do and how to do it! Good luck friend
avatar
Rix
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 2332
Reputation : 83
Join date : 2012-12-12
Age : 23
Location : England

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Journeyman on Sat Mar 23, 2013 10:03 pm

trainingforlife wrote:
Journeyman wrote:

This.
Of course, one can improve on 'A' by doing 'B' but they would improve more on 'A' if they focused on 'A'... with a little 'B' on the side, perhaps, but not an 'alphabet soup' of training, if we're using that example.

You do this in your own training zazen--metcons are randomized but you use or have used 5-3-1 for strength training, iirc. That is a specific routine focusing on your big lifts because randomly adding bench and back squat to a circuit simply will not do for best results.

Also, life doesn't 'give you' anything of the sort. The most functional training anyone could do is progressively adding weight to their iphone, tv remote and soup spoon. It's all about being healthy and having fun; and if having fun is competing in powerlifting, or completing triathlons, or learning to do handstands and one arm chins, or just being able to do pushups while jogging around the block it's up to you. And for best results, one should train specifically for goals if one has them. It's the 21st century, this 'life is tough' BS just doesn't apply. Heck, even if you're working a manual labor job, people have gotten by lifting boxes without doing circuit training to 'help with the rigors of daily life' for about 3000 years now.

Correct my A&B was powerlifting some peoples A&B are push-ups and dips. Now I add in the randomize to shock my body in a new way. Just like I have been saying do A&B, but not only A&B unless thats all you wish to be good at. As for the manual labor bit I find you dont know what your talking about. I was a ranch hand I did everything from run down cattle into pins,climb gates and 100ft stairs cases,carry 50lb bags of feed,throw 40lb blocks off salt and other stuff,flip 300+ tires, even hike miles with 30lb pack and a rifle on a weekly bases. This "labor " as you call it by lifting a few boxes is a joke. 10+ hours a day lifting,running,carrying,pull,and pushing your way thought life thats what life is all about. To each his own we will agree to look at training a differently. :igiveup:

Apparently you didn't read what I wrote.
Doing a few burpees and sumo deadlift high pulls aren't necessarily going to help you with hard manual labor like that. What I was saying is that if 'life' IS that hard for you, you don't need some randomized training program to make you better at it, you go out and do it because men have done that for a couple of millenia now, and living like that is how you get better at it. I don't see guys at the construction site trying to do 'varied, highly functional training across broad modal domains' to get better at lifting concrete chunks. And athletes with actual sports in mind definitely don't need that.

Crossfit's idea of randomization > specificity is bullsh!t, plain and simple. Every top athlete specializes. If you're good at something, train to be good at that and don't expect a whole lot of carryover from doing random stuff cobbled together.
Heck, look at the Xfit games winners, first of all their athletic base doesn't come from crossfit. They come from strongman, olympic lifting, football, whatever. Second of all, they train SPECIFICALLY for the games events. They don't follow the mainpage WODs. Many of them even periodize the more common WODs that usually end up in competitions.

Now, again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with some random conditioning training. Ross Enamait, Bud Jeffries, Mike Bruce, Christopher Summers--they know how to do that properly. But that 'random' stuff is the cherry on top of your specific, goal oriented training.
If I did a bunch of random sh!t cobbled together I never would've done a one arm chin. I wouldn't be closing in on a triple bodyweight deadlift. I wouldn't have been able to run 5 miles with a 20lb pack, do 25 consecutive pistols with each leg, or strictly press my own weight overhead without a warmup. All those things I trained for specifically.

Read this article I wrote for Bret Contreras: http://bretcontreras.com/lessons-learned-from-marvin-eder-an-iron-game-legend/
That is what I mean by incorporating variety, but still training specifically. I use marvin eder as a convenient example.
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Dave on Sat Mar 23, 2013 11:40 pm

Jman wrote:randomization > specificity is bullsh!t, plain and simple.

QFT :^:
avatar
Dave
Admin
Admin

Posts : 7971
Reputation : 169
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 36
Location : Peterborough, Canada

http://physicalculture.canadian-forum.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by alexander_a on Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:38 am

trainingforlife, this is not ment to come across as hostile, I just like the discussion of ranom VS specific. I often read Jamie Lewis blog about training and it's often random workouts. But not random as in totally different stimuli or layouts but more in terms of doing different rep ranges, exercise pairings, frequency and so on, but it's all basic HEAVY lifting. I can definetly relate to that type of training, I use some of it myself but with high tension BW movements. The rep ranges change, I use different variations of the same movements, I use different supsersets and change the volume BUT it's all progressing towards a few very basic goals. Right now it's basic gymnastic strength - and so hardcore conditioning, weight lifting, bodybuilding stuff has to take a step back for a while. Random but for very specific reasons, kinda like the west side template.

I didn't understand how the CF article proves that specified training is not enough? If anything it said that the powerlifter got strong and good at his sport by training only for that? Or did you mean the west side template comment, about how they work weak points and cycle movements through the phases? I'm seeing that kind of like working heavy chins and grip to become good at climbing, it's not random for random's sake but to build some specific quality.

and regarding him getting to lose weight, he could have done that by swinging KB a few hundred times a day as well, for example, right? I really get the point if one, like this powerlifter, likes to train to compete at CF games (or simply just like the type of training), but not really the concept of random for the shock effect or to keep the mind fresh and all. I'd really like to hear more about what makes it more valuabe than training strength and conditioning after a few focused goals?

Probably, I don't fully understand "when crap hits the fan" thing? I did read a site about training to survive a zombie apocalypse, and that was pretty fun stuff, a bit parkour-ish. That's crap hitting the fan in a major way :D I just have a hard time finding motivation to do such random workouts when I really want front levers, planches, OAC and stuff rather than being ready for SHTF, (I'd just do an iron cross pull out of the zombie horde if it came to that ;) )

And as for Iliander, I think that day you said that he will "learn and understand" must have already happend - I mean check that guys workout log :) Not that you aren't training very good stuff yourself, trainingforlife, you're a doing great with your style of training, but it doesn't mean our friend Ili, who trains differently, does not understand training, beacuse he's also come a long way in fitness!

peace!

alexander_a
Elite
Elite

Posts : 900
Reputation : 36
Join date : 2012-12-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Iliander on Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:47 pm

alexander_a wrote:And as for Iliander, I think that day you said that he will "learn and understand" must have already happend - I mean check that guys workout log :) Not that you aren't training very good stuff yourself, trainingforlife, you're a doing great with your style of training, but it doesn't mean our friend Ili, who trains differently, does not understand training, beacuse he's also come a long way in fitness!
I appreciate it. I didn't mind what TFL said, simply because it didn't make sense, and he was changing his arguments all the time.

Anyway, I fixed some quotes that were messed up.
avatar
Iliander
Incredible
Incredible

Posts : 2300
Reputation : 52
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 20
Location : Belgium

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by trainingforlife on Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:30 pm

Let me break it down here...If all you do is powerlifting you will only be good at powerlifting. If all you do is body weight training thats all you will be good at. Now by doing powerlifting or body weight will you be able to do other stuff YES,but your not going to be good at it. If you do more then just PL and BWE then you will be good at other stuff. To show my style of training works look at my PR records. On my PR record page you will see I train everything not just A&B. PL was my base training IE learn the basic and get good at them then randomize your training. The article I posted was about a world class PL but because all he did was PL when it cam time to do other stuff he was unable to perform even if he did have great gym lifts. You will see out side of it talking about him lifting it did not talk about muscle ups,box jumps, or running. Which I am sure at 308 were not happening or were not good at all. IE train other stuff besides A&B. About the SHTF thats life as a ranch hand my job didnt care if I could lift 500lb in the gym or a HSPU it cared if I could run,climb,hike,and lift at a minutes notice. SHTF has nothing to doing with zombies. It as to do with real world events like having to shovel snow,flip tires,carry 50+lb bags yards at a time, load and unload 75lb hay bales all this has little to no gym equal. ILIANDER my argument has always been the same DONT TRAIN JUST A&B UNLESS THATS ALL YOU WANT TO BE GOOD AT. If you look at FatMan.EvilOne,Dave CyCo,Native all do more then just A&B yes they all learned the basic movements of body weight training and weight lifting and they add both within their training on a weekly bases. Not one does just BWE or just PL they mix it up and make there bodies learn more and more. Which makes them a more well rounded athlete of life.

trainingforlife
Masterful
Masterful

Posts : 625
Reputation : 23
Join date : 2012-12-02
Age : 41
Location : Ok

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoK7PpW9-MZvpiFtiuYVtLg

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Dave on Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:42 pm

trainingforlife wrote:If you look at FatMan.EvilOne,Dave CyCo,Native all do more then just A&B yes they all learned the basic movements of body weight training and weight lifting and they add both within their training on a weekly bases. Not one does just BWE or just PL they mix it up and make there bodies learn more and more. Which makes them a more well rounded athlete of life.

This is true, but there is very little true randomness in my training. Almost everything I do has a specific purpose.

ILIANDER my argument has always been the same DONT TRAIN JUST A&B UNLESS THATS ALL YOU WANT TO BE GOOD AT.

But what does this really mean? Does it mean don't only do the same two workouts for your whole life? If so I agree! Does it mean don't create an A&B routine and follow it exclusively for a cycle or two? If so, why not? Focused specificity in a limited number of exercises can yield PHENOMENAL results that carry over amazingly well into daily life.

My first real journey into fitness training involved literally only three or four exercises that I did almost every day: hindu squats, hindu pushups and wrestler's bridges with some supine leg raises thrown in the mix now and again. Within a few short months, I was in better shape than just about anyone I knew (except for the maniacs on the forum) and I found I had a practically limitless capacity for manual labor.
avatar
Dave
Admin
Admin

Posts : 7971
Reputation : 169
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 36
Location : Peterborough, Canada

http://physicalculture.canadian-forum.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Dave on Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:47 pm

Despite being a complete beginner, that routine enabled me to squat 200 pounds the first time I ever barbell squatted, pull a car up an incline, while keeping up with another guy who had been doing fitness stuff his whole life and outpace almost every member of a running group I ran with one night (my first time EVER running any long distance for that matter).

The lack of variety and lack of randomness in my training was not a problem at all. I'm not saying that more variety would have been bad, I'm just saying that focused specificity is definitely not inferior when done with well chosen high quality exercises and a good work ethic.
avatar
Dave
Admin
Admin

Posts : 7971
Reputation : 169
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 36
Location : Peterborough, Canada

http://physicalculture.canadian-forum.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by alexander_a on Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:50 pm

Like I wrote, you're doing great with your training and you've got good PRs, mate - not questioning that at all. I think the only reason this argument comes up is some people does not care about being good at all the different things that you describe helps a lot with your lifestyle. If my training doesn't make me good at all aspects of fitness at the same time, that's fine. My life doesn't even require me to be fit, I just like it a lot :)

Probably that's why it's hard to tell a beginner what way is the best to train, we've got different goals, but I'm really supporting your advice about learning some basics and then experimenting with what you want to do!

I hope you didn't take the zombie thing as an insult, just a joke about SHTF.

alexander_a
Elite
Elite

Posts : 900
Reputation : 36
Join date : 2012-12-01

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Dave on Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:51 pm

Yeah, whenever I talk to people about SHTF, there is always some reference to the "coming zombie apocalypse". :laugh1:
avatar
Dave
Admin
Admin

Posts : 7971
Reputation : 169
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 36
Location : Peterborough, Canada

http://physicalculture.canadian-forum.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Journeyman on Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:11 pm

^^^ Yep.

Again, my views are pretty simply laid out in that article I put up. Don't limit yourself to 'the big three' or 'the two olympic lifts' or pushups/situps squats.... But do focus. Pick a few exercises you really want to excel in, and build those up over time, specifically.

I've mentioned a few combos that I think are good. Max deadlift, max overhead anyhow, pullup, dip, high rep squat, sprint is a good one. No need to throw a bazillion different exercises in random circuits. That is just counterproductive.
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Iliander on Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:16 pm

A & B means the workouts described on the first page. Not "exercise1" and "exercise2".

The point is that Axel currently does not need more than the A & B workouts described on the first page...
avatar
Iliander
Incredible
Incredible

Posts : 2300
Reputation : 52
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 20
Location : Belgium

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Journeyman on Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:19 pm

^ This seems to be the basic point you've been making. If it is, the majority of us seem to be in agreement on that.
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by itlives on Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:37 pm

I think Axel is gone from this thread.....
avatar
itlives
Moderator, Selective Germaphobe
Moderator, Selective Germaphobe

Posts : 4244
Reputation : 162
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 61
Location : Shreveport Louisiana

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by trainingforlife on Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:17 pm

I was there not too long ago. It was once my whole life to be great at 3-4 different things and thats it. When I first started playing around with Met-con's or CrossFit I was shocked on how weak I really was. I could easily out lift everyone in the box. It was not until I had to step out of the normal gym lifts that I realized that I had to change. Until you are forced to step out side your comforted zone you will always see what your doing is right. We all have our own ideas of fitness and what is important to our life styles. I wish you all the best at reaching your goals.

trainingforlife
Masterful
Masterful

Posts : 625
Reputation : 23
Join date : 2012-12-02
Age : 41
Location : Ok

http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoK7PpW9-MZvpiFtiuYVtLg

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Rix on Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:30 pm

Here here. :cheers2:
avatar
Rix
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 2332
Reputation : 83
Join date : 2012-12-12
Age : 23
Location : England

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Axel on Mon Mar 25, 2013 11:51 am

Thanks for answering guys. I didn't read anything but I think I get the point. :laugh1:
I'm starting my log today when I have some time.

Also I'm a beginner but not a complete beginner. I'm doing some of the excercices for a few weeks now.

Also I have a question: I've been doing the convict conditioning training.Could anyone tell me why I can't get past stage 2 of the pushups series. Normally I don't have a problem doing pushups but the incline pushups are really hard for me.
avatar
Axel
Experienced
Experienced

Posts : 75
Reputation : 1
Join date : 2013-01-26

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by itlives on Mon Mar 25, 2013 12:17 pm

Do more incline push-ups. LOL! Really, that's the secret.

I'll be watching for your log!
avatar
itlives
Moderator, Selective Germaphobe
Moderator, Selective Germaphobe

Posts : 4244
Reputation : 162
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 61
Location : Shreveport Louisiana

Back to top Go down

Re: Help needed with routine

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum