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Strength vs Size vs Endurance

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Re: Strength vs Size vs Endurance

Post by Dave on Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:51 pm

Journeyman wrote:It's not so much that conditioning will help with strength (though when you get to a certain bodyweight, being able to walk to a loaded barbell without sitting down on the way probably helps) but building strength-endurance, or a sort of work capacity with the strength you do have.... It really is all about base building, whether it's via increased frequency, or volume.
In other words, you're really just saying "Keep doing hard stuff, but do it more" :eyebrows: 
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Re: Strength vs Size vs Endurance

Post by Journeyman on Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:04 pm

Not so much... you have to create a base and then peak properly. Which is extremely difficult to do if you aren't a professional athlete training under controlled conditions.
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Re: Strength vs Size vs Endurance

Post by Rix on Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:10 pm

We need to be like TREES!!!!!!!!! Strong as Oak, Naturally Big, Endures all Weathers, and all that comes from solid foundations!
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Re: Strength vs Size vs Endurance

Post by Fatman on Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:28 pm

Journeyman wrote:270 pound fat guys of average height should be pulling 700, not maxing out the calf machine and then strutting up and down to examine their bellies in the mirror.
270 lb. fat guys should be working on becoming 250-lb. guys, then 220-lb. guys, not fretting over 700-lb. deadlifts OR calf work.

I'm all for half squats, shrugs and concentration curls if they produce the desired physique effect.
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Re: Strength vs Size vs Endurance

Post by Journeyman on Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:37 pm

True.

There's a difference between squats done with 'knee flexion only' and a legit half or quarter squat from the pins. Just as there's a difference between heavy concentration curls (or even kickbacks) and burnout sets with 15s. And shrugs with 405 are nothng to be impressed about if the lifter doing them is a soft 250+ himself.
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Re: Strength vs Size vs Endurance

Post by Fatman on Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:01 am

Journeyman wrote:And shrugs with 405 are nothng to be impressed about if the lifter doing them is a soft 250+ himself.
Yes, but the guy doing shrugs probably isn't looking to impress people around him with the weight. He wants them to be 'mirin his traps.
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Re: Strength vs Size vs Endurance

Post by Dominator350 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 12:20 pm

A lot of the people I trained with couldn't get over how I trained when I was at a gym. I would insist on 1-4 reps for powerlifting and olympic lifting, then and speed, in the form of burpees, shadowboxing, heavybag, . Two polar opposites, but it makes sense, in the end you get bone crushing power with lighting speed right?

Well everyone didn't see it that way. They would mix semi heavy lifting with endurance training, it was a killer workout, but not the athletic quality I was looking for. I'm a believer in testing opposing limits.

Heavy weights make you slow...? So if you're going to lift, lift the heaviest. Might just as well.

And if you're going to work on speed, move the fastest you possibly can. Don't just half ass it.

These two qualities oppose each other, and at the same time serve to enhance your range of athleticism. Hence, they seem to build endurance.

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Re: Strength vs Size vs Endurance

Post by Dave on Thu Aug 22, 2013 2:31 pm

Dominator wrote:These two qualities oppose each other, and at the same time serve to enhance your range of athleticism. Hence, they seem to build endurance.
I won't argue against this. But some specific endurance training is still called for. I mostly do Oly style lifting lately and I did my first murph yesterday in 45 minutes. But I know that I need to do more murphs (or similar endurance/conditioning style training) to get a meaningfully better time.

Dominator350 wrote:Heavy weights make you slow...?
Hahaha, as if! Poor technique might make you slow, but there is an explosive component to the bench, squat and dead if you focus on it. And let's not even start talking about Oly lifting. If anything heavy weights make you heavier and being heavier (without also having more strength or power) will make you slower.
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Re: Strength vs Size vs Endurance

Post by Dominator350 on Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:18 pm

Dave wrote:
Dominator wrote:These two qualities oppose each other, and at the same time serve to enhance your range of athleticism. Hence, they seem to build endurance.
I won't argue against this.  But some specific endurance training is still called for.  I mostly do Oly style lifting lately and I did my first murph yesterday in 45 minutes.  But I know that I need to do more murphs (or similar endurance/conditioning style training) to get a meaningfully better time.

Dominator350 wrote:Heavy weights make you slow...?
Hahaha, as if!  Poor technique might make you slow, but there is an explosive component to the bench, squat and dead if you focus on it.  And let's not even start talking about Oly lifting.  If anything heavy weights make you heavier and being heavier (without also having more strength or power) will make you slower.
Hahaha I know, and I respect your stance on this issue. I am still loitering around the edge, constantly waiting to accept new statistics.

However I will never forget the summer when I was 26/27, no weights(except labouring at work) all summer, and I was real fast dude. Like I know when I'm slow or kinda slower. I'm realllly slow right now. But yeah I was a speed maniac when I was 26. Fastest I've been all my life.

On the other hand, ULTIMATELY I would choose to handle any type of heavy weight exercise if it came down to it, just because of the other benefits besides speed... like power, and durability, shock absorption, and general handling of external weight.

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Re: Strength vs Size vs Endurance

Post by Dave on Thu Aug 22, 2013 4:50 pm

So rather than think about what you've added since you were 26, I would ask this:  What did you remove?  Because I do suspect that moving heavy loads on a regular basis, plus speed specific work will be optimal.  The heavy lifting doesn't have to be 3 days a week, and for a fighter I would imagine once a week would be fine with squats one week and deads the next or something like that, in order to avoid burnout.  Then you spend the rest of the week refining and channeling that raw power and strength into your speed - scary.
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