PhysicalCulture.canadian-forum.com
Some parts of the forum are not accessible to non-members, so be sure to join right away!

Post your training log, get involved in challenges, and add to our vault of fitness and physical culture wisdom!



Messages posted on this forum express the opinions of their respective authors and not necessarily those of anyone else. You agree to not hold anyone responsible for the content of any post but the author thereof and anyone who expresses agreement with him or her.

Messages with an attacking, demeaning or slanderous tone are prohibited.

Messages or usernames which promote, evoke or encourage unlawful, lewd or immoral practices are prohibited.

Vulgarities, curses and racial slurs as well as religious blasphemies, curses and exclamations, are offensive and neither pleasant nor welcome.

Copyrighted materials may not be posted without the express approval of the copyright holder, such approval to be displayed along with the content. If you notice material that is copyrighted but no permission is listed with it, you agree to report it to a moderator or to admin.

Post your messages only once. Double posting (this does not refer to accidentally replying twice to a post, but to creating multiple threads with identical content in multiple sections of the forum) is incredibly annoying and double posts will be deleted.

Make an effort on grammar and spelling. Using nothing but SMS-style language or l33t speech (ex: y r u h3re m8?) is unsophisticated, annoying and not welcome!

You accept that messages contravening the listing above may be edited or removed without need for notice and that transgressions deemed severe enough may be met with banning. Be helpful, kind and respectful to one another, and let's keep this community great!

Tips from the shoulder guy

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Tips from the shoulder guy

Post by Dave on Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:24 am

Anyone have shoulder problems or use your shoulders for sport (i.e. baseball is the one he refers to)?  Eric Cressey says "don't do dips".

http://www.ericcressey.com/baseball-strength-training-programs-dips

And here's an interesting article regarding rehabbing from a shoulder injury with the goal of getting back to barbell military pressing.

http://www.t-nation.com/training/how-to-build-bulletproof-shoulders

And I'd be interested to hear opinions regarding dips and other sports, and whether the mechanics between throwing punches and throwing a baseball are similar enough for his advice to carry over to martial arts (or football, etc.).
avatar
Dave
Admin
Admin

Posts : 7971
Reputation : 169
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 36
Location : Peterborough, Canada

http://physicalculture.canadian-forum.com

Back to top Go down

Re: Tips from the shoulder guy

Post by Iliander on Thu Apr 10, 2014 11:16 am

lol dips are the fastest way to a warrior torso. i will read that article in more detail later.

and saying that bench dips are "really awful for everyone" is just wrong imo. because that means korean dips and even v-sit or manna is bad too.

bench dips is the best exercise i know to contract the triceps.
avatar
Iliander
Incredible
Incredible

Posts : 2300
Reputation : 52
Join date : 2012-11-30
Age : 20
Location : Belgium

Back to top Go down

Re: Tips from the shoulder guy

Post by Journeyman on Thu Apr 10, 2014 12:41 pm

Bench press > dips, imo. You can dip a total weight of 400+ pounds while looking like a normal(ish) gym rat, there's a guy weighing 170 who's closing in on a 500lb dip or something. But if you worked up to a similar poundage on bench... yeah. Totally different.
It's just a matter of potential. Dips are not only closed chain, but are at a greatly advantageous pressing angle and you can use your lats a ton, so you have to use some ridiculous overload to get the same effect. And despite the bench press' bad rep for shoulder damage, dips are worse, for most people.
Eric is right.
That T-nation article is excellent, too.

I got to meet him this past weekend, btw. He's bigger than he looks in pictures... vicious handshake, too.
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Tips from the shoulder guy

Post by Fatman on Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:16 pm

Journeyman wrote:Dips are not only closed chain, but are at a greatly advantageous pressing angle and you can use your lats a ton, so you have to use some ridiculous overload to get the same effect.

A dip is basically an extreme-angle decline bench press.

It's an okay assistance exercise for bench pressing and can be used on its own; however, as JMan said, you adapt to them quickly and adding extra weight becomes awkward. Not to mention that a dip with 100-200 pounds of extra weight strapped to you is dangerous in case of a slip.

I used to do a lot of bench dips with weight when I was a BBing wannabe. Never had any problems doing these due to favorable leverages, but a lot of people develop shoulder problems. There are much more effective triceps exercises, even with bodyweight.

So I guess the "really awful for everyone" claim is more or less correct. People whose body structures are lousy for bench dips will get injured. People with favorable body structures are wasting their time on bench dips.
avatar
Fatman
Adept
Adept

Posts : 312
Reputation : 24
Join date : 2013-02-28

Back to top Go down

Re: Tips from the shoulder guy

Post by Journeyman on Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:44 pm

Yep. All the strongest guys who did a lot of dips generally did them for volume--5-10 sets of 10 (pat casey, marvin eder, gennady ivanchenko). And that way they're good for getting a lot of press/bench assistance work in, if you have bulletproof shoulders.

Agreed on the bench dips... I can only think of that one armwrestler guy who did ridiculously overweighted partial bench dips, who really got anything out of them.
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Tips from the shoulder guy

Post by hedwards on Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:10 am

This is rather interesting. It's worth noting the qualifiers in the article. The main concern here seems to be for people that are playing baseball and similar sports who aren't properly strengthening and maintaining the muscles of the rotator cuff and scapular stabilizers.

It's kind of interesting that the article recommends against doing them when I've found doing a couple of them makes my entire torso feel much more secure than when I don't do them at all. But, when I say a couple, I mean a couple of them when I'm doing my L-holds on parallel bars.

I suppose it's also worth noting that when I'm doing dips that I'm generally also doing bridges and twists.

I do wish the article would be a tad more clear about whether it's an innate aspect of overhead throwing sports here combined with dips that are the problem or if this is more of a dyproduct of atheletes not properly caring for the muscles that are involved with the shoulders.

hedwards
Experienced
Experienced

Posts : 46
Reputation : 2
Join date : 2013-07-23

Back to top Go down

Re: Tips from the shoulder guy

Post by Journeyman on Tue Jun 03, 2014 2:49 am

hedwards wrote:
I do wish the article would be a tad more clear about whether it's an innate aspect of overhead throwing sports here combined with dips that are the problem or if this is more of a dyproduct of atheletes not properly caring for the muscles that are involved with the shoulders.

Pretty much both. There's not hard data either way, more just basic advice there. 'This stuff causes problems for some people' + 'people throwing and going overhead with high velocity/high volume are going to get the worst of it'.
avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Tips from the shoulder guy

Post by Cesar on Tue Jul 22, 2014 3:53 pm

So Question?
KB arm bars. I have been reading about TGUs and the benefits for shoulder stability and over health including strength. While doing so, I read that arm bars are great too.
Any ideas?
avatar
Cesar
Unsurpassed
Unsurpassed

Posts : 4349
Reputation : 50
Join date : 2012-12-01
Location : Albany, NY

Back to top Go down

Re: Tips from the shoulder guy

Post by Journeyman on Tue Jul 22, 2014 5:39 pm

imo--the arm bar is a flexibility drill. The getup is a lift; or should be treated as such as soon as possible.

avatar
Journeyman
Exercise Encyclopedia
Exercise Encyclopedia

Posts : 2159
Reputation : 102
Join date : 2012-12-24

http://affectinggravity.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: Tips from the shoulder guy

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum