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Rack deadlift vs regular?

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Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by Guitar_maniac on Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:13 pm

I know only the regular one, never tried it from the rack. What's the point of rack? To my eyes it looks like you can get huge amount of weights from it, but the ROM suffers greatly? What i am missing in here? Got interested cause o colleaque can lift 280kg from the rack, impressive amount of weight.
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Re: Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by Dave on Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:14 pm

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Re: Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by Guitar_maniac on Thu Apr 24, 2014 7:29 pm

Hhmmh, figured something like that. Checked his FB pics again, and the bar seems to be at his knee-level. He looks huge tho :D muscle-wise, only pics of him training are those DL's, he wouldn't say what martial art he practices, he don't want to brag with that.  :scratch: 
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Re: Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by Journeyman on Thu Apr 24, 2014 9:44 pm

280kg from the rack really isn't impressive.... Most people can load up insane amounts of weight even without specific training. (Look at me and Dave, +20% from our DL easily.)



He's gotten a lot out of rack pulls, though. So has Adam Glass.

Basically though, it's no substitute for the normal DL; just a good accessory/supplement if used properly.
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Re: Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by Guitar_maniac on Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:31 am

Guess i fell to the old "Wow, so much weight" impression.

Few years ago i thought that size = power, but after trying BWE, it proved that wrong. Those pictures of him lifting have gained many likes, and comments that would boost one's ego.

He is pretty huge looking, and he's from the Filippino's or somewhere around there. So in Finland, when some drunken dude sees huge Asian looking guy coming over with Security on his shirts, it's pretty efficient :D

He's a cool guy, but boasting with this now seems kinda, lame if it really isn't impressive at all. I dunno, haven't tried.
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Re: Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by Dave on Sat Apr 26, 2014 11:51 am

Well look how skinny I am in my pic, I still look pretty much like that.  And just a few days ago I shrugged 225 kg (495 pounds) for two sets of 20 and pulled 265 kg (585 pounds) from the rack, using straps mind you.  I tested to see what I could pull without straps (using mixed grip) and it was 225 kg, and I could only hold it for a second. But as Jman said, it is about 22% more than my conventional deadlift.

My traps always respond immediately to this kind of overload though.  I did 4 sets of 50 with 45 kg (100 pound) dumbbells the week before and the immediate response in my traps was barely noticeable compared with what I get from super heavy barbell shrugs.  The only problem is it is very easy for me to rip skin on my hands when I do them.
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Re: Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by Guitar_maniac on Sat Apr 26, 2014 3:48 pm

Well, his DL is still bigger than mine (atm! But i will win him! :D). But yea, guess that would be considered a bit of cheating boasting with that movement.

but yes, concerning size, it seems to fool so many people.
One silent evening at work i was watching our "action squads" (guys who handle the biggest disturbances) around the ice hockey match, the supervisors look the part, but most of the teams are big guys, not fit at all, beer bellies etc.
One of them even quit Defendo because it was too hard/tough. But since i look/am smaller, i seem to have no place there, even if i got more experience from bouncer works than some of them.

Huge amount of weight without straps! My grip gives in on 140 kg on DL (dont know the exact pounds), asked for a trap bar to be bought for gym so i can train farmer's walk/grip. Dumbells and kettlebells are limited to 40 kg, that's too little for farmer's walk.
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Re: Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by Journeyman on Sat Apr 26, 2014 8:29 pm

Guitar, if you're curious about how your grip holds up you can try rack pulls as well; see how much you can lock out without using straps. It will be a lot more than your best DL.
The most I've pulled from the floor (without chalk) was 425, and about 330-340 with a double overhand grip. And I rack pulled 505 (also without chalk). Hard to say the exact ratio but it will be much higher than your DL from the floor... it's a different type of grip test, too, because you only have to hold on for a second.

Sounds like you're jealous of this guy... just get stronger, haha.

Also remember that size DOES matter. If someone is pretty big in terms of bodyweight and bone structure; even if they can't lift all that much in comparison to their size, they probably are either very strong in general or have the potential to be a very strong lifter if they trained properly.
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Re: Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by Guitar_maniac on Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:22 am

It's some strange guy-thing that one wants to lift more than the others? :D A.K.A Jealousness :D

Size does matter to some degree yes (especially in strength training), and properly trained, everyone of us has potential. But when it's just mainly fat, that's not really useful, when talking about security personnel. I believe that no one can really push around/move the guys our "action squads", but do some of them have the stamina to fight back if needed? If a person is fat, and in poor condition, and the average match with a drunken brawler lasts about 3 minutes. And considering the fact that big guys aren't the fastest.
I don't really think that guy who quit Defendo because it was too hard, that he would stand a chance one-on-one :/ No dissing towards that person, he is a nice guy, but just if you take this line of work as a security personnel, you should maintain some exercising regime, it's a danger to the people attending the events as well if security is poor.

I look things a bit differently because of my line of work. I totally agree with your point on the last sentence, when thinking only about strength training.
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Re: Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by Iliander on Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:38 am

Guitar_maniac wrote:It's some strange guy-thing that one wants to lift more than the others? :DA.K.A Jealousness :D
one must get rid of strife completely. instead of becoming jealous, get INSPIRED/MOTIVATED and respect the person for his hard work. competing with others is an inferior way of growing stronger yourself compared to competing with yourself.
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Re: Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by Journeyman on Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:49 am

Guitar_maniac wrote:It's some strange guy-thing that one wants to lift more than the others? :DA.K.A Jealousness :D

Size does matter to some degree yes (especially in strength training), and properly trained, everyone of us has potential. But when it's just mainly fat, that's not really useful, when talking about security personnel. I believe that no one can really push around/move the guys our "action squads", but do some of them have the stamina to fight back if needed? If a person is fat, and in poor condition, and the average match with a drunken brawler lasts about 3 minutes. And considering the fact that big guys aren't the fastest.
I don't really think that guy who quit Defendo because it was too hard, that he would stand a chance one-on-one :/ No dissing towards that person, he is a nice guy, but just if you take this line of work as a security personnel, you should maintain some exercising regime, it's a danger to the people attending the events as well if security is poor.

I look things a bit differently because of my line of work. I totally agree with your point on the last sentence, when thinking only about strength training.

...Yeah, definitely some jealousy/insecurity, haha  :mrgreen: If your first thought when someone is bigger/stronger than you is some fantasy of 'I could take that guy in a fight' something's wrong, imo.

Also, pretty sure there's a reason security guys are generally large. If your job consists of throwing unruly drunks out of wherever, it's better to be large. Plus, the intimidation factor.
And size definitely matters in a physical struggle even if the large person is weaker or less skilled, believe me.

Anyhow, I'd say really focus on yourself and getting badass at your job for real instead of coming up with reasons that you could be better in your head... jmo.
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Re: Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by Journeyman on Sun Apr 27, 2014 7:50 am

Iliander wrote:
Guitar_maniac wrote:It's some strange guy-thing that one wants to lift more than the others? :DA.K.A Jealousness :D
one must get rid of strife completely. instead of becoming jealous, get INSPIRED/MOTIVATED and respect the person for his hard work. competing with others is an inferior way of growing stronger yourself compared to competing with yourself.

This is 100% on point.
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Re: Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by Guitar_maniac on Sun Apr 27, 2014 8:00 am

Iliander wrote:
Guitar_maniac wrote:It's some strange guy-thing that one wants to lift more than the others? :DA.K.A Jealousness :D
one must get rid of strife completely. instead of becoming jealous, get INSPIRED/MOTIVATED and respect the person for his hard work. competing with others is an inferior way of growing stronger yourself compared to competing with yourself.

I didn't mean that very seriously ;) I like a bit of healthy competition sometimes. Of course i respect people who achieve lot.
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Re: Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by Journeyman on Sat May 10, 2014 7:12 pm

Here's a dude who does a lot of lockout work in the DL (and very heavy grip work, and lockouts/partials in general):





For reference, his best deadlift appears to be around 200kg range or just below; he has a vid of a badly hitched 420lb from a few years back.

This is something of an extreme example though, as he does a lot more partial than full range lifting.
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Re: Rack deadlift vs regular?

Post by MF! on Sat May 10, 2014 9:45 pm

to the OP, were you curious about the actual function of a rack pull?

The idea (from what I understand) is to help the lifter work through a specific ROM in the lift. It's supposed to give the neural input to train through a sticking point at a higher weight so that when full ROM is used in the lift they are more likely able to work through that sticking point at the lower weight.

I think there may also be some benefit to power output in other things related to short ROM plyometrics.

^ purely pseudoscience. I dont really have any articles or references to back up what I mentioned but I think thats the general reason why rack pulls are useful.

Also a really good ego boost ;)
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