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DL potential issue

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DL potential issue

Post by Rix on Wed Jul 16, 2014 5:31 am

Hey guys.

So today I DL for first time with reps and sets and I now have a lil dull pain in my lower back towards the right side. I used over under grip, didn't change hands and only used 80kg. I tried to keep my chest out and back as straight as I could. I know it's hard to judge without seeing a video but can I please have some pointers and maybe a guess to why I have a lil dull pain? Maybe fatigue, probly and most likely form is off. I didn't feel the DL much in my hamstrings as much as I so with lower weight.

Thanks guys.
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Dave on Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:24 am

Some possibilities:

Torso too horizontal
Not enough knee flexion
Center of gravity too far forward
Jerking the weight up instead of taking all the slack out of your body before initiating the pull
Or simply going beyond your means on the first session

I'd also suggest using double overhand only, hook grip, or switching hands in mixed grip if you really have to use mixed grip. This is more for long term muscular and postural balance.

In the end, it's probably nothing serious, heal up and try again, but if at all possible, please video all sets and post them for us to see. Then maybe we can identify if your form is off or deteriorates with fatigue and we can offer more precise possible solutions.
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Rix on Wed Jul 16, 2014 8:37 am

Thanks dave.

Out of all those I would say body too horizontal and not enough knee flexion. I'm going to just try double overhand grip from now on and it would be hard to video. Gyms packed. Even at 6 in the morning.

Ill video with my weight set at home maybe. Only 40 KG tho.
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Journeyman on Wed Jul 16, 2014 7:00 pm

x2 on the video.

Body too horizontal really isn't a very common issue. You shouldn't have much knee flexion unless your legs are very short. Your shins should be more or less vertical at the start, and your shoulders over the bar... which means that for most people, their hips will be well above the level of their knees and often just below their shoulders.

Here is how NOT to do it:

Butt too low, knees over the bar, shoulders behind the bar (try lifting with your shoulders behind the bar sometime... it is simply not possible). The deadlift is not a squat... it is a hinge.

Here's a picture illustrating the 'squat vs hinge' difference:


This is what a deadlift should look like:


Or this (notice hip position at the start):


Or this (freeze frame at 0.19):

That's an example of a person with shorter legs, btw. But still--hips well above knees, shins vertical, shoulders over the bar.


I'd actually say that 'hips too high, use lower hips/more knee flexion' is the #1 thing people get wrong in the DL (thus the rant, haha).

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/are_you_ignorant_when_it_comes_to_the_deadlift

Anyway, could be going too heavy. If you do go lighter, make sure you're pulling the bar from the same height, should be 9 inches or a bit under 23cm off the ground. In fact, if you deadlifted with more range of motion than you're ready for, that could be one issue, definitely.

If you went over/under, but don't have practice controlling your back yet, the grip might've made you torque your back out of position and put more load on one side. Definitely go DO or try the hook grip as dave suggested... that's great advice. Trying to use a mixed grip too early can lead to problems, for sure.

And, at least for now, only go as heavy as you can while still 'feeling' your hamstrings. Being able to notice that (or that you aren't feeling it) is a very good thing.
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Rix on Thu Jul 17, 2014 3:47 am

Ok thanks j-man. Pains gone now. Major DOMS tho.
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Iliander on Thu Jul 17, 2014 6:49 am

hm, my bar is only about 6 inches above the ground...
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Dave on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:25 am

Because you use smaller diameter plates?  Deficit deadlifts are fine as an accessory, but I think you would be holding back your potential progress, not to mention risking injury if you are going heavy, if you don't get the bar another 2 3/4 inches higher for your main lift.
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Iliander on Thu Jul 17, 2014 10:48 am

yes my plates are different. i have always been doing deadlifts and power cleans this way. i now put the barbell on other plates to have 9 inches and it feels easier.
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Dave on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:00 am

You'll probably progress better this way and once the weight gets heavy enough it should no longer feel easier. I predict your strength will increase dramatically again.
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Iliander on Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:13 pm

we will see

thanks for advice
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Journeyman on Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:46 pm

Dave wrote:Because you use smaller diameter plates?  Deficit deadlifts are fine as an accessory, but I think you would be holding back your potential progress, not to mention risking injury if you are going heavy, if you don't get the bar another 2 3/4 inches higher for your main lift.

This. It's hard to learn proper deadlift form using normal (much smaller) diameter 25lb plates, for example.
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Rix on Thu Jul 17, 2014 2:58 pm

I got quite high plates at my gym. Aiming for as much over double bodyweight as possible by end of year ;)
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Dave on Thu Jul 17, 2014 11:47 pm

I am expecting a breakthrough soon myself. 405 felt easy on my body for the first time ever a few days ago. It was a tiny bit of a grind the other day, but faster than I ever did it before. About time, as I've been stalled for a year.
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Journeyman on Fri Jul 18, 2014 1:25 am

Dave wrote:I've been stalled for a year.

Join the club... haha
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Dave on Fri Jul 18, 2014 7:49 am

Ha, let's both quit that club! First step for me is getting better/more sleep.
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Journeyman on Fri Jul 18, 2014 2:24 pm

Me too! Sleep is so darn huge for me, an hour less/more can make or break an entire day's training. You'd think being a college man would've made me adaptable to little or no sleep... nope.
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Rix on Mon Jul 21, 2014 4:37 am

Thanks guys btw, today I did 4 sets of 60kg for 12 reps concentrating on all the tips and advice you all gave me and no pain after or during or anything :)

I did it to the side of a mirror and watched my technique a few times. I also watched a quite helpful video from "buff dudes". Felt it all down my Posteria chain nicely.
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Dave on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:11 am

Good to hear!
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Dave on Mon Jul 21, 2014 8:13 am

Journeyman wrote:Here is how NOT to do it:

I still can't get over the ridiculous starting position. Funny thing is that the article it came from actually explains what a good start position is further down, so why they ever added this picture to their article, I have no idea.  :duh:
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Re: DL potential issue

Post by Journeyman on Mon Jul 21, 2014 9:25 pm

They must have a bunch of stock pictures for each exercise they just plug in.

I've seen articles written by knowledgeable people and even if they're explaining perfectly good beginner tips; the picture is some oiled up fellow with a constipated expression doing the lift with 3lb dumbbells, or something.
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