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warm up

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warm up

Post by Buckyx on Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:36 pm

how do you warm up for injury prevention? I asked this many times, never got real answer

today messed up shoulder during warm up where I did only easy and light stuff and never thought about something like that can cause injury......
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Re: warm up

Post by Dave on Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:58 pm

What is a real answer? Are you actually asking me what I do to warm up? I warm up with any of these: light squats, deadlifts, snatches, cleans, pushups and a bunch of other things that I have done at various stages in my training life.

Or are you looking for feedback about your specific situation mentioned in the second line? If so, you need to provide details, details, details.
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Re: warm up

Post by Buckyx on Tue Oct 21, 2014 2:58 am

general warm up or someone who trains a lot of bodyweight as I dont do any lifts now
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Re: warm up

Post by Dave on Tue Oct 21, 2014 6:38 am

What are you doing for a warm up now?
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Re: warm up

Post by Buckyx on Tue Oct 21, 2014 7:19 am

my body feels like its gonna break up when I train without warm up so I try to slowly prepare for exercises I do

starting with joint circles, some arm swings, band dislocations, scapula activation with arms only, then with light bands, then if I do pulling work I do inverted rows retractions, then just hang, then some depressions and then BW pull ups

yesterday injured after first hang
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Re: warm up

Post by Dave on Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:20 pm

Well from my experience, bodyweight movements require much less in the way of warm up than barbell exercises in order to avoid injury or soreness. But it sounds to me like you are doing an aweful lot of shoulder focused movements in your warm up. If anything, my suspicion is you are doing too much in what you call your warm up.

Why not try scaling it back and doing something simple that will raise your heart rate and warm up all your muscles, something like jumping jacks? Maybe it sounds silly, but sometimes something simple and easy is just what the doctor ordered, especially if you haven't done them before or in a while. If that is too easy for you, jump rope. Just try something other than what has already hurt you.
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Re: warm up

Post by Buckyx on Tue Oct 21, 2014 1:25 pm

maybe yes I always had bad shoulder mobility and scapula control, I thought its good to warm up them before training so I can execute exercises properly .. I am doing this for months tho and never had single problem with that and my performance was much better than unwarmed up so I kept going

1 week rest at least for upper body and core, then I will see

also tried many things as warm up, nothing seemed to really work = I didnt felt ready after anything and first set of every exercise just felt hard, took few sets to feel better and stronger
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Re: warm up

Post by Dave on Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:03 pm

Well as you progress your body changes and needs different stimuli, so maybe what used to work is no longer suitable. There is such a thing as too much mobility. Are you pushing your ROM to extremes? If you have built too much mobility and not enough stability/strength in your shoulders, then that could easily account for your injury. Joints need to be mobile, yes, but only to a certain point, and mobility should be backed with sufficient strength against resistance in near end ranges.
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Re: warm up

Post by Journeyman on Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:01 pm

Dave wrote: If you have built too much mobility and not enough stability/strength in your shoulders, then that could easily account for your injury.  Joints need to be mobile, yes, but only to a certain point, and mobility should be backed with sufficient strength against resistance in near end ranges.

If you remember the pictures he put up just a while ago, I highly doubt he's become 'too mobile' this quickly.

What do you mean by 'injured'? What happened exactly?
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Re: warm up

Post by Buckyx on Wed Oct 22, 2014 12:36 pm

I dont know what exact injury it is, maybe only a pulled muscle
it felt very unstable the exact moment I noticed pain, it was not sharp still strong

the problem is with left shoulder which was less mobile than right for as long I remember

happend during warm up when I hanged on the bar, was doing some arm swings and circles
before, not sure if its the cause I did some of those explosively without control but it was painfree .. once in a while the pain shooted to triceps/arm but its like a weakness and light pain now
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Re: warm up

Post by Journeyman on Wed Oct 22, 2014 1:21 pm

Left shoulder... where? The deltoid, rotator cuff, teres... take a look at a few anatomy pictures and try to find out exactly what it is.

And doing your joint mobility stuff at a controlled pace is probably a good idea.
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Re: warm up

Post by Buckyx on Thu Oct 23, 2014 3:12 am

I did only some arm swings uncrontrolled but I am still not sure how single hang can result to injury, Ido teaches deadhang without any shoulder activation even for people who never trained before and I had never problem with that too

also its hard to determine, last time I injured shoulder 2 years ago it was with pulling work too but it was sharp pain straight after set, now it wasnt sharp and was comming more from the joint itself once I hanged again(at the start of hang)
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Re: warm up

Post by Journeyman on Thu Oct 23, 2014 10:58 am

Which joint dude... the shoulder is pretty complex.

Also, I will say this. Untrained people or people with serious flexibility issues who follow Ido's advice to the letter generally end up hurt. He removes those comments from his facebook groups but I've seen plenty before they're taken down.
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Re: warm up

Post by Buckyx on Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:01 pm

cant recognize where its comming from .. sometimes I feel weakness/discomfort in traps or tripceps but comming somewhere from shoulder
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Re: warm up

Post by Dave on Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:27 pm

Journeyman wrote:Untrained people or people with serious flexibility issues who follow Ido's advice to the letter generally end up hurt. He removes those comments from his facebook groups but I've seen plenty before they're taken down.

!!!!!!!

So basically he is irresponsible, inconsiderate and dishonest in his dissemination of information.  Good to know.
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Re: warm up

Post by Journeyman on Thu Oct 23, 2014 1:29 pm

Irresponsible, no, not with his own students. Inconsiderate, yes, especially regarding the safety of online clients. Dishonest--I wouldn't say so. He is in fact very honest about the possibility (even probability, over the long term) of injury.

-edit-
I should say that the above is regarding his training advice for others. His own training history and background he is dishonest about and fairly openly so.
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Re: warm up

Post by Buckyx on Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:46 am

so I am constantly looking back and analyzing what could go wrong...

I was obsessed with deadhang and no scap activation I mean hanging completely free with shoulders next to my ears.. I was warming up with that deadhang, also doing hanging leg raises in that, and like 1-2 weeks pre injury shoulders just didnt feel good in bottom of a weight pull up but it was not pain

do you have any idea what could happen in the shoulder? sometimes I feel the pain in the collar bone but its even possible to injure collar bone during deadhang?
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Re: warm up

Post by Journeyman on Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:37 pm

Probably hurt because you don't have 1. the mobility to safely hold your own weight in that position, so it stressed the tissues in your shoulder joint, and 2. your joints weren't strong enough anyhow. Full, relaxed dead hang work is not something you can just randomly start doing especially if you lack overhead mobility.

And yes, your collar bone (clavicle) is connected to your AC joint so it could very well have been stressed from being pulled upward.
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Re: warm up

Post by ccheatum on Sat Nov 08, 2014 10:52 pm

Jman to the rescue again. I concur with the conclusion that you cannot just start doing full dead hang work. That puts a lot of stress on the connective tissues that they are not prepared for. It is one of the biggest challenges about watching guys like Ido. They have developed their skills over decades of work. Just because it looks easy when they do it does not mean that you can even attempt it safely no matter how many warm up exercises you do.
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Re: warm up

Post by itlives on Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:55 pm

Remember that medieval torture machine, the stretch rack?
Basically, that's what you're doing to your shoulder joints when you dead hang.
If you let go of all control in the shoulder, it's not good -for me anyway.
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Re: warm up

Post by Journeyman on Sun Nov 09, 2014 1:22 am

itlives wrote:it's not good -for me anyway.

^

If you can do it, it's really good for you. In a lot of ways. If you can't... not so much. As with most things.
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Re: warm up

Post by Buckyx on Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:42 am

I was doing deadhang pull ups for more than a year, just added relaxed hangs and that stuff lately and thought my shoulders are used to that

lacked some mobility in left shoulder, thats the one injured so it can be that reason
after 3 weeks I noticed in the mirror it is lower than right
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Re: warm up

Post by Journeyman on Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:23 pm

Buckyx wrote:
lacked some mobility in left shoulder, thats the one injured so it can be that reason

...It's almost definitely the reason.
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Re: warm up

Post by Buckyx on Mon Nov 10, 2014 5:21 pm

do you have any advice for that?
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Re: warm up

Post by Dave on Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:01 pm

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Re: warm up

Post by Buckyx on Tue Nov 11, 2014 7:48 am

hm suddenly after 3 weeks, when it was feeling good its getting worse and worse each day, started to be painful with some moves but now it hurts while wearing backpack or just walking, eating...... strong shoulder/clavicle pain Ive never had before
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Re: warm up

Post by Dave on Tue Nov 11, 2014 8:23 am

STRONG pain? Maybe you should see a doctor.
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Re: warm up

Post by Buckyx on Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:03 am

yes very weird, suddenly
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Re: warm up

Post by itlives on Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:46 am

When I hurt my shoulder, it didn't really hurt. It took a while for me to realize it was truly messed up.
What Dave said..
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Re: warm up

Post by Buckyx on Tue Nov 11, 2014 9:55 am

it just seems unbelievable, 3 days ago it was ok, during whole 3 weeks even, feels like its worse than day 0, also its not regular, sometimes it hurts and sometimes not during the same action, I wonder how many people must have got injured this way, Ido portal put a challenge with relaxed hang 7 mins daily for 30 days so that it increases shoulder and spine health LOL and I am not even new to hanging or pull ups
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Re: warm up

Post by itlives on Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:17 am

Buckyx wrote:it just seems unbelievable, 3 days ago it was ok, during whole 3 weeks even, feels like its worse than day 0, also its not regular, sometimes it hurts and sometimes not during the same action, I wonder how many people must have got injured this way, Ido portal put a challenge with relaxed hang 7 mins daily for 30 days so that it increases shoulder and spine health LOL and I am not even new to hanging or pull ups

All of them that weren't incapacitated right away! LOL!
Take care of it!
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Re: warm up

Post by Buckyx on Tue Nov 11, 2014 10:40 am

well all I did was some warm up, then relaxed hang for like 20 sec, took a while rest then I just hanged on the bar and it happened the exact moment, also Ive been doing controlled deadhang pull ups for very long time and relaxed hangs for 3 months

doing exercises without control is just bad, dont know what I'd think but never felt any pain during those, it was only uncomfortable of course
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