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Friend says long-term ketosis is a good thing for an athlete?

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Friend says long-term ketosis is a good thing for an athlete?

Post by Guitar_maniac on Tue Mar 10, 2015 8:08 pm

This guy is lean! But he don't really lift/do any kind of strength training other than what we do at martial arts (few pushups etc). We started talking about nutrition, and he said he was on ketose, been for a long time. He has much more energy etc than he had when he was still eating carbs.

I'm looking strength and size. because of my work, and personal goals, would long-term ketose be useful? My guess is no, since if it would be "stay lean and gain muscle" everyone would be on it all the time?
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Re: Friend says long-term ketosis is a good thing for an athlete?

Post by Cheesedog on Wed Mar 11, 2015 1:34 am

Ketogenic diets work very well, for SOME people. If your metabolism is suited for it, which you can't really find out without sticking to it for at least a couple of weeks straight. Personally I feel great when in ketosis, but the first couple of days are very trying, until your body runs out of it's stored carbohydrates and starts burning fat all the time. I've been having success this year gaining mass while losing fat on a ketogenic plan. I would recommend, and have been doing, occasional "carb-up" days to keep my metabolism from slowing down. as far as "why doesn't everybody do it" it's just not a traditional diet, so most wouldn't even consider it.
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Re: Friend says long-term ketosis is a good thing for an athlete?

Post by Guitar_maniac on Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:45 am

How often do you have carb-up days, and how much carbs?

i'm not really interested in dieting for a while, then going back to "normal", and dieting again. But if i could keep this up i could try and see this.
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Re: Friend says long-term ketosis is a good thing for an athlete?

Post by Journeyman on Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:47 pm

It's not.

Like Cheese said it's very individual... and works quite well for some. But 1. carbs are the only energy source your body can process anaerobically, so depending on your sport they are indeed 100% necessary in some form (the reason 'no-carb' cross fitters still need carb loading to complete their high intensity work; and the fighters I worked with last summer needed glucose tablets to do their glycolytic work properly when dieting down for a fight). And, 2. if you want to gain size, cutting out carbs is not the way to go. It's just inefficient to increase total calories while simultaneously cutting out your easiest source for them.

"Staying lean while gaining muscle" isn't going to give you the best of either world, but you'll just have to find a sweet spot (in terms of macro ratios and total calories relative to your training, rest etc.) where you'll put some weight on without a lot of it being excess.

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Re: Friend says long-term ketosis is a good thing for an athlete?

Post by Journeyman on Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:49 pm

And, 'he's lean' doesn't mean anything. I recently gained about 10lb, significant for me, while my bf% remained in the single digits. I mainly eat carbs which I wouldn't really advise for most people (it's kind of the opposite extreme from what you're suggesting).
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Re: Friend says long-term ketosis is a good thing for an athlete?

Post by Guitar_maniac on Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:12 pm

Journeyman wrote: 2. if you want to gain size, cutting out carbs is not the way to go. It's just inefficient to increase total calories while simultaneously cutting out your easiest source for them.


That was one point i was asking about him, but then he made a point that fat has 9calories/gram, and carb has 4. and its true. That slightly tipped the scale to his favour in my eyes.
but then again, i don't much about the functions of the body yet, just the basics what fats/pro's and carbs are used for.
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Re: Friend says long-term ketosis is a good thing for an athlete?

Post by Journeyman on Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:24 pm

The 'carbs for bulking' comes from a utility standpoint--think of which of the two (generally) you could easily consume/digest/process more of just in terms of bulk. Sure you could snack on whole sticks of butter for your calories but that wouldn't end very well in most cases. So carb sources are simply more convenient. Thus, the 'easiest source' definition comes from practicality.
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Re: Friend says long-term ketosis is a good thing for an athlete?

Post by Journeyman on Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:38 pm

I can dig up some more detailed stuff later but here are a couple of 'quick and dirty' articles that should make the distinctions more clear (regarding carbs, bulking, leanness, and individualization):

http://www.strengthsensei.com/2-things-i-know-for-sure-about-nutrition-wolfgang-unsold/
http://www.lift-run-bang.com/2011/04/against-current-grain-methods-to-gain.html
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Re: Friend says long-term ketosis is a good thing for an athlete?

Post by Fatman on Thu Mar 12, 2015 9:51 am

IMO ketosis is excellent for dropping fat. Getting bigger and stronger - not so much.

Like Jman pointed out, response to diets is highly individual and there is no such thing as the "average guy/gal". Some people might achieve the elusive goal of losing fat and gaining muscle on such a keto diet, but odds are you're not one of them.

Then again, you won't know until you try.

The LRB notion of "high carb and high protein with low fat to gain mass - high protein and medium fat with low carbs to lose fat" is something I agree with. The old "bulk and cut" approach is useless to the non-drugged trainee, so don't bother with that, especially if you're a naturally skinny individual.
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Re: Friend says long-term ketosis is a good thing for an athlete?

Post by Cheesedog on Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:24 am

Guitar_maniac wrote:How often do you have carb-up days, and how much carbs?

i'm not really interested in dieting for a while, then going back to "normal", and dieting again. But if i could keep this up i could try and see this.

Right now once a week, one or two cheat meals on that day. As far as how many grams of carbs, I don't count them but I would guesstimate 200 grams or so.
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