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Personal update

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Personal update

Post by Journeyman on Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:59 am

I'm moving to AZ for work in just a few weeks. Do we have anyone on the west coast? I forget.... If you're out there, I'm coming your way!
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Re: Personal update

Post by Dave on Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:47 pm

Phil's the only one I can think of, there'll be one state line between you.

AZ is great!  Good firearms laws. Would you carry?
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Re: Personal update

Post by squatty on Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:49 pm

I would if I were JMan.
I already carry some "stuff".
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Re: Personal update

Post by Journeyman on Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:19 pm

Zero interest in firearms for personal defense. This sums my opinion up pretty well:
http://www.quora.com/Is-it-better-to-own-a-gun-for-self-defense-or-is-that-more-likely-to-cause-problems/answer/Jon-Davis-10?srid=nG8l&share=1

Any argument against those points is going to be rooted in some sort of 'but I'm a real tough guy!' Statement so... yeah.

Plus, the 21 foot rule has yet to be practically disproved.

Keep in mind that these are holstered, not concealed, weapons. I have a personal anecdote regarding that experiment too.

Finally, look at the recent Florida occurrences to see the result of irresponsible gun use... the bodies are piling up down there.

Squatty, the middle east is of course different (in terms of culture; maturity with regards to weapons, familiarity with violence, and the likelihood of 'events')--I am referring only to the US here  :mrgreen:

I'm a strong proponent of not being a dumbass; martial arts, physical superiority, and dogs if you want to keep yourself safe. Of course, this is a personal decision, the laws are the laws and they are pretty lax in some places; but that is what it is.


...Rant aside, I am very interested in both archery and rifle shooting. My vision isn't great and my hands aren't very steady, so in addition to the 'zen' appeal of shooting, there could be some practical benefits there. Archery in particular has always intrigued me but of course I was never strong enough to try it out when I was younger. And Arizona seems to have some open spaces that would be great for either or both of those!
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Re: Personal update

Post by Brahma Bill on Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:46 pm

Journeyman wrote::

I'm a strong proponent of not being a dumbass
This has got my vote for quote of the Month.
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Re: Personal update

Post by Dave on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:23 am

Is Jon Davis against individual ownership and enjoyment of firearms? Or is he okay with shooting sports, but just don't touch a gun to save your life? I'm under the impression that each state where concealed carry became legal, violent crimes practically fell over night, not because of how fast knife wielders can run, but because criminals don't want to even risk being shot. Psychology. Funnily enough it was Florida that I read that about first. But I think your problem is with the "stand your ground" law, rather than legal carry of firearms.
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Re: Personal update

Post by Journeyman on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:29 am

My primary problem is with the 'stand your ground' laws, yes; not necessarily with the guns themselves. It's an example of how the weapons are used when wielders are given a freer rein.
If the weapons weren't being toted around in the first place by people who don't know what they heck they're doing, that would be even better.

I'm not going to speak for Davis, but the article seems purely practical from a defense standpoint. Which is the question at hand.

'Under the impression': No. There are some supposed figures regarding drops in crime rate, however, the only 'studies' done were heavily doctored/biased and conducted by advocates of gun shows, etc.

The only hard evidence for that psychological advantage ever was, I believe, a study conducted among females who were in threatening situations from males and when they stated that they had a weapon, the guys backed off. That is a rather particular demographic, though; and it was quite a small study anyway.
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Re: Personal update

Post by Dave on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:39 am

I'm talking about violent crime statistics correlated with institution of carry laws. States that allow carry of concealed weapons have lower crime rates than those that don’t. With over a 30 state sample size these stats seem hard to explain away.
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Re: Personal update

Post by Dave on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:41 am

Journeyman wrote:My primary problem is with the 'stand your ground' laws, yes; not necessarily with the guns themselves. It's an example of how the weapons are used when wielders are given a freer rein.

For sure. Ever heard of the guard/prisoner experiment? People can be nasty when given an inch.
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Re: Personal update

Post by Dave on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:46 am

Just came across this. Looks interesting.

http://americangunfacts.com/
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Re: Personal update

Post by Dave on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:46 am

So what about this work? Will it be school related?
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Re: Personal update

Post by Journeyman on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:56 am

Dave wrote:I'm talking about violent crime statistics correlated with institution of carry laws.  States that allow carry of concealed weapons have lower crime rates than those that don’t.  With over a 30 state sample size these stats seem hard to explain away.

Not if you adjust for population. Firstly, most states allow concealed carry to some degree. Of the states with the most lenient gun laws
http://www.deseretnews.com/top/1429/10/Utah-10-states-with-the-most-lenient-gun-laws-.html

5 of the 10 are in the top 20 for violent crime rates (according to the census bureau). And two of them; Alaska and Arizona, are actually in the top 3. So no, definitely not. Be wary of adjusted or carefully selected statistics....
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Re: Personal update

Post by Journeyman on Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:58 am

Dave wrote:Just came across this.  Looks interesting.

http://americangunfacts.com/

Pretty bogus. As you can see, the entire site is set up with an agenda in mind. Also, they cite Kleck and Gertz heavily. Gun advocates generally do. But that study was conducted on under 3,000 people; by phone, and gun owners self-reported experiences with no corroborative evidence.

(The critique of that study is that it intuits well that someone who purchased a gun for home defense would exaggerate its usefulness and the effectiveness of their own performance, when no proof whatsoever was required. More of a survey of beliefs than an actual study).
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Re: Personal update

Post by Journeyman on Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:01 am

Dave wrote:
Journeyman wrote:My primary problem is with the 'stand your ground' laws, yes; not necessarily with the guns themselves. It's an example of how the weapons are used when wielders are given a freer rein.

For sure.  Ever heard of the guard/prisoner experiment?  People can be nasty when given an inch.

Yeah, that one's fascinating. To me that was a more interesting example of how people accept the roles they're given.

In a more everyday situation, I always saw that as potential proof of my reasoning for that in long term relationships, if one person consistently 'spoils' the other (taking care of them in a parental kind of way) the recipient of that behavior will become more juvenile. Always seems to happen.
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Re: Personal update

Post by Dave on Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:18 am

"Be wary of adjusted or carefully selected statistics...."

Sigh~ always a concern with government or big business.

Too bad we all can't be like Switzerland.
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Re: Personal update

Post by Journeyman on Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:26 am

Government stats are generally pretty good. The studies are pretty agenda free--our system is, if anything, very good at cancelling its own biases out when it comes to things like that. (It also means that policies as a whole are pretty much gridlocked and we're falling behind other countries in many, many areas; but that's a different issue.)

Switzerland is very different. Notice how 1. no one's clamoring for military grade weapons to defend themselves from supposed government aggression; and 2. the cultural difference. Gun violence was never an issue in the US when weapons were more positively embedded in the culture as a tool to be respected. If you've heard of the 'city vs. country' analysis of the gun debate here in the states; I actually very much respect the latter view and wish it were more realistic though my own political opinion is that of the former. Probably because I grew up in a state with a LOT of guns and a rich, mature background in their usage.
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Re: Personal update

Post by Journeyman on Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:44 am

Saw this scrolling back up

Dave wrote:So what about this work?  Will it be school related?

Training, so not school related. My resume and references got jacked enough that I was accepted to a job I wasn't even going to try for for a few more years.
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Re: Personal update

Post by Dave on Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:41 pm

That's awesome! Congrats!
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